Technical Fiat doblo 1.3 multijet issues

[Jayw1984]

Had on going issues with my doblo 2015 1.3 90bhp

Posted before about failed emissions and dpf issues.
Main issues were 2 failed glow plugs and causing bad start and white smoke on start up. Replaced plugs and thays gone away.

However I've connected my scanner to check dpf did a force regen and it got about 20mins in and failed. Smoke absolutely everywhere during regen.
Checked scanner and got a monitor for egr valve stats egr monitor bank 1 $31 80 result failed (picture included) does still have some symptoms of potential egr issues but is this the case or possibly a red hearing again. Also checked live stream for injectors cylinders 1-3 all showing same mmi / stoke of 0.45 and bank 4 goes from 0 to 0.02 even tho is in acceptable range would this difference potentially mean that cyclimder 4 injector maybe be faulty/ sticking? New to reading live data and don't want be changing or removing parts for no reason bit bad egr would explain the dpf issues

 

[bugsymike]

Had on going issues with my doblo 2015 1.3 90bhp

Posted before about failed emissions and dpf issues.
Main issues were 2 failed glow plugs and causing bad start and white smoke on start up. Replaced plugs and thays gone away.

However I've connected my scanner to check dpf did a force regen and it got about 20mins in and failed. Smoke absolutely everywhere during regen.
Checked scanner and got a monitor for egr valve stats egr monitor bank 1 $31 80 result failed (picture included) does still have some symptoms of potential egr issues but is this the case or possibly a red hearing again. Also checked live stream for injectors cylinders 1-3 all showing same mmi / stoke of 0.45 and bank 4 goes from 0 to 0.02 even tho is in acceptable range would this difference potentially mean that cyclimder 4 injector maybe be faulty/ sticking? New to reading live data and don't want be changing or removing parts for no reason bit bad egr would explain the dpf issues

Before you throw buckets of money I suggest you put a tin of DPF cleaner in the fuel tank with at least half a tank of fuel and engine warmed up then go for a blast along dual carriageway etc. for 30 miles with engine revs between 2000 and 3000 rpm so if not going fast, keep in a lower gear to keep that revs, engine temp must be at 90 degrees, middle of gauge, do not stop as if engine is trying to do a EGR Regen it will mess it up.
That worked for my daughters VW Golf 1.6 diesel. On her 5 speed I was in fourth gear doing 60mph roughly.
Note if your Scanner shows Cinder count over 80% you may end up needing a new DPF or if DPF pressure sensors still give high readings after doing what I suggested.

 

[Jayw1984]

Before you throw buckets of money I suggest you put a tin of DPF cleaner in the fuel tank with at least half a tank of fuel and engine warmed up then go for a blast along dual carriageway etc. for 30 miles with engine revs between 2000 and 3000 rpm so if not going fast, keep in a lower gear to keep that revs, engine temp must be at 90 degrees, middle of gauge, do not stop as if engine is trying to do a EGR Regen it will mess it up.
That worked for my daughters VW Golf 1.6 diesel. On her 5 speed I was in fourth gear doing 60mph roughly.
Note if your Scanner shows Cinder count over 80% you may end up needing a new DPF or if DPF pressure sensors still give high readings after doing what I suggested.

Ya currently my scanner is showing dpf % at 68% level 2 and stats regen not required, dpfs are an absolute pain i might just take egr off and see if needs a good clean anyway before throwing money away

 

[bugsymike]

Worth doing what I suggested.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Its Italian. Its designed to be given some stick, and I find it makes a huge difference. I used to drive at 4000rpm for 10 miles even if having to use a lower gear. Giving the car a thrash is a good honest and valid thing to do, rasing engine and exhaust heat a lot, and forcing large volumes of air (and exhaust through the sustem. Bugsymikes suggestion of cleaner also valid, and I have been told similar by several good engineers over the years and found it seems to work.

 

[bugsymike]

Its Italian. Its designed to be given some stick, and I find it makes a huge difference. I used to drive at 4000rpm for 10 miles even if having to use a lower gear. Giving the car a thrash is a good honest and valid thing to do, rasing engine and exhaust heat a lot, and forcing large volumes of air (and exhaust through the sustem. Bugsymikes suggestion of cleaner also valid, and I have been told similar by several good engineers over the years and found it seems to work.

Old diesels were simple and no problem on stop /start short journeys, but these modern small ones with all the emission equipment really are not for town use. Especially if cold weather and thermostat not working so engine never gets to 90 degrees.

 

[Jayw1984]

Totally agree need diesel engines seem cause alot of issue my old van (pre dpf) never once gave me any trouble I do as above its also due an oil change so will doing all maintenance etc as well

 

[The Panda Nut]

Ya currently my scanner is showing dpf % at 68% level 2 and stats regen not required, dpfs are an absolute pain i might just take egr off and see if needs a good clean anyway before throwing money away

Try applying cleaner first. But follow instructions carefully! Many SHORT, SMALL squirts into air flow.

 

[bugsymike]

Try applying cleaner first. But follow instructions carefully! Many SHORT, SMALL squirts into air flow.

That's a different stuff to what I meant, the one I used goes in with the fuel, the whole bottle just before a fast drive for 30 miles.
If it works then a regular half a bottle with every full tank of fuel seems to keep the DPF issue at bay for my daughters car even though she is only doing short/slow trips.Unless I get behind the wheel.

 

[The Panda Nut]

That's a different stuff to what I meant, the one I used goes in with the fuel, the whole bottle just before a fast drive for 30 miles.
If it works then a regular half a bottle with every full tank of fuel seems to keep the DPF issue at bay for my daughters car even though she is only doing short/slow trips.Unless I get behind the wheel.

AH your talking of DPF stuff I was talking EGR because he said he was thinking of removing EGR to clean it.
I use additive in the fuel all the time now (on occasional basis. 3x yr approx.) If I were still driving diesel I would use it all the time. I think the supermarket fuel additive packages may have some answering to do. If you use V Power DERV or similar I think it makes a difference and have read some potentially supporting stuff on the net.
I am sure I read one of the additive makers stuff saying they guaranteed MOT exhaust emissions would be better with their product.

They say bio diesel fuels are cleaner (Sainsburys claim?)

 

[The Panda Nut]

Old diesels were simple and no problem on stop /start short journeys, but these modern small ones with all the emission equipment really are not for town use. Especially if cold weather and thermostat not working so engine never gets to 90 degrees.

Proof positive. OLD IS BEST!

 

[clayts450]

Ya currently my scanner is showing dpf % at 68% level 2 and stats regen not required, dpfs are an absolute pain i might just take egr off and see if needs a good clean anyway before throwing money away

The key reading you need is differential pressure - can you please report back (pref in millibars or hpa) what the reading is at idle and at 3000 revs ?

The active regen cycle on these Fiats is not complicated. The 68% is meaningless - it's just a figure the ECU works out from your driving style, time lapsed, miles driven, nothing more scientific than that. It has nothing to do with actual soot levels in the DPF, which is why so much confusion occurs.

Generally speaking, they will do a regen once the calculation is at 80% assuming certain conditions are met (coolant temp over 70, driving for at least 2 minutes, try to maintain 62mph, no engine management light).

Alternatively, once the percentage is over 100, the speed is irrelevant - as long as the other conditions are all met, it'll start regenerating (increasing DPF temp to 650 degrees), even at 20 mph. Just drive normally (even stop start is fine) and it should finish the regen within 10-15 mins.

Try to avoid forced regens if at all possible - if you try to do one of these when the DPF is blocked, you can crack it. The tail pipe test is a good gauge for this - wipe your index finger around the inside of the tailpipe. If it comes out covered in soot, your DPF is damaged. It should not blow any black smoke (soot) out at all.

Unlike other manufacturers, the DPF is poorly implemented in the engine management system. There are only about 4 codes - the two key ones are P1206-22 (level 1 blocking reached) and P2002-22 (level 2 blocking reached). This will appear when the differential pressure is high, but the computed percentage clogging is low. It's then a case of having to try to work out why the differential pressure is high - usually soot getting in from somewhere that the engine hasn't taken into account - can be leaking injectors, dodgy EGRs, blocked oil feeds, blocked coolers, dodgy sensor, blocked sensor pipes, you name it).

Putting DPF additive in the fuel tank is one option, but not guaranteed. You're far better to try some of the DPF foam cleaner (Mannol do one), as it works on dissolving the soot in the DPF, then combusting it through normal engine temperature
.
Hope this helps - I've become a bit of a DPF bore since buying my most recent Doblo. If you have any DPF related questions shout up.

 

[clayts450]

Proof positive. OLD IS BEST!

Agreed 100%. DPFs are parts that have been bolted onto old tech, and amazingly they don't work at all well....

 

[the green vanper]

Diesels are not intended to be used in cities, for short distances. That's all.

 

[clayts450]

Absolutely agree. I drive long distances, and on lots of motorways. For me, a diesel is perfect. For shopping trips and school runs - petrol or EV every time

 

[bugsymike]

Diesels are not intended to be used in cities, for short distances. That's all.

Until more recently all local delivery vehicles were diesel as most economical on stop start town use, but when it was found out about emissions they loaded them up with DPFs and EGRs etc. and went to smaller engines which totally ruined them.
However they let salesmen push them onto people who wanted a small vehicle to park in town etc. and didn't bother to tell them it was the worst environment for them, equally so small diesels flogged down the motorway have a relatively short life span too due to getting the power by higher revs and loads in many cases.
A big lazy diesel on longer runs is great as cruising at 70mph and under 2000 revs then 200k miles fairly easy to attain.Those small diesels have very little torque so have to be revved which shortens their life span.

 

[bugsymike]

Proof positive. OLD IS BEST!

I am old, does that count?

 

[the green vanper]

Emissions is one problem. The other one, more important from my point of view is that diesel exhaust gases are carcinogenic. And it's not a 'new/fancy/popular/eco' knowledge or information. It has always been so. For me it's a reason to ban diesels from cities.

The 238 was only petrol, the 241 / 242 were available with both diesel and petrol engines. Since the 1st generation Ducatos were also available with other engines (petrol, later on also LPG, CNG). So I can't be so sure if

Until more recently all local delivery vehicles were diesel as most economical on stop start town use

While looking for my actual van I was considering buying a motorhome based on a 2002 Mercedes Sprinter. I spoke to a friend who had 2 newer Sprinters (2006 and 2010, so definitely before the DPF era), he was using them for work (not on short distances) and he was constantly having problems with injectors... Perhaps due to poor quality of fuel in Poland, no idea.

But it's not the topic of this thread. 'Modern' diesels (1995+, maybe 2000+) don't like short distances. Using them in such conditions will always need special care. Same as with the Dualogic gearbox. It is a 'special needs' thing

 

[bugsymike]

Emissions is one problem. The other one, more important from my point of view is that diesel exhaust gases are carcinogenic. And it's not a 'new/fancy/popular/eco' knowledge or information. It has always been so. For me it's a reason to ban diesels from cities.

The 238 was only petrol, the 241 / 242 were available with both diesel and petrol engines. Since the 1st generation Ducatos were also available with other engines (petrol, later on also LPG, CNG). So I can't be so sure if


While looking for my actual van I was considering buying a motorhome based on a 2002 Mercedes Sprinter. I spoke to a friend who had 2 newer Sprinters (2006 and 2010, so definitely before the DPF era), he was using them for work (not on short distances) and he was constantly having problems with injectors... Perhaps due to poor quality of fuel in Poland, no idea.

But it's not the topic of this thread. 'Modern' diesels (1995+, maybe 2000+) don't like short distances. Using them in such conditions will always need special care. Same as with the Dualogic gearbox. It is a 'special needs' thing

Health wise I agree with you, but from a mechanical perspective I hate all the emission "add ons" that have ruined a good design.
LPG and CNG are quite rare in UK, so petrol or EV only serious options in city/towns, EV for most is still too expensive especially for the second hand market, most EV sales are to companies on lease etc. with big bulk discounts. Plus the cost of electricity in the UK is more expensive than nearly every other Country.
Over the years I have had many diesels from Series Land Rovers, BMC and BLMC vans, Peugeot 504 and 505s, many of the Fiats from 1.7 Punto, Doblos from 03 onwards 1.3,1.6,1.9 etc. However the engine I like best was in the Sofim 2.8 turbo intercooled in Iveco Daily's. A 3.5 tonne van that can tow 3.5 tonne trailer at the same time as returning 24 mpg all year round even on short journeys and engines over 257k miles on the clock and all that is needed is a regular oil and filter change (plus engine flush) along with cambelts when due, to me was a winning combination. I loved them so much I put the engine from a 1997 Ducato Maxi van in my boat and adjusted the fuel and turbo to almost equal the performance from a 3.75 litre petrol V6 engine at under half the fuel use.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I am old, does that count?

Yes it very much does. Im old too!!