Introduction
1968 Fiat 850 Coupe, imported to Sweden in 2022 from her earlier life in Finland.
850 Fiat 850 Coupé Sport
- Thread starter Widarwidar
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Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum (and to Fiats!). 
On friday I'm going to check out a 1968 850 coupé, so I'm turning to the knowledge of the Fiat Forum.
What are the important things to lookout for and double check?
The engine, 903cc according to reg., is recently rebuilt and by the looks of it with some abarth parts(?) and extra fuel filter(?) between the tank and the carb.
See the attached picture.
I'll be back with lots of pictures if i decide to buy it.
Thanks for any input!
On friday I'm going to check out a 1968 850 coupé, so I'm turning to the knowledge of the Fiat Forum.
What are the important things to lookout for and double check?
The engine, 903cc according to reg., is recently rebuilt and by the looks of it with some abarth parts(?) and extra fuel filter(?) between the tank and the carb.
See the attached picture.
I'll be back with lots of pictures if i decide to buy it.
Thanks for any input!
Attachments
Does look like some serious mods, so a fun little car.
Not happy with fuel filter next to hot exhaust pipes.
Also we have had some discussions over air filters drawing hot engine air rather than cooler air away from engine compartment so more dense with more oxygen for engine.
However envy you a little 850 Coupe, as an apprentice in the 1970s we had customers with the saloons both Fiat and Seat versions.
Not happy with fuel filter next to hot exhaust pipes.
Also we have had some discussions over air filters drawing hot engine air rather than cooler air away from engine compartment so more dense with more oxygen for engine.
However envy you a little 850 Coupe, as an apprentice in the 1970s we had customers with the saloons both Fiat and Seat versions.
Very good point about the fuel filter location. Defenitly something I'd have to fix. But what i ment with fuel filter is the metal thing on the bottom on the picture - and don't get what that is. Relocated Fuel pump? Image searching on 850 coupé engine bays never showed this.
Good point on hot air, off course it would be better to somehow get some cooler air in there. Any ideas?
Good point on hot air, off course it would be better to somehow get some cooler air in there. Any ideas?
I am guessing it is a high capacity fuel pump.
Apart from a dedicated air flow to the air filter, I notice sporty VW Beetles modify the boot lid to increase air flow around the engine compartment.
What are your thoughts regarding lagged exhaust manfolds, I did it on a turbo intercooled diesel engine that I had adjusted for higher performance on a boat with success, but opinions vary.
I suppose it depends how extreme people want to go, generally for road use not a problem.
I agree, air flow is something I'd have to look into off course. I dislike it drawing air that way it does.
What do you mean with "lagged"? I'm unfamiliar with that term regarding exhaust manifolds.
What do you mean with "lagged"? I'm unfamiliar with that term regarding exhaust manifolds.
It is where fibreglass tape or similar is wrapped around the pipes and then secured with stainless steel ties.
If you do a search quite a few companies sell versions of it.
"One of the most important benefits is that heat is better retained in the exhaust. This results in a higher temperature in the exhaust and leads to more power."
Aha, yes, I'm indeed familiar with that. That would be a good and cheap thing here I think, reducing the actual amount of radiant heat.
Well first step is to actually see the car and give her a spin.
Well first step is to actually see the car and give her a spin.
So I bought her! Newly rebuilt engine, pistons and all, brakes are good etc. A bit rough on the outside but imho that only adds charm. No rust holes except a small one in the frunk.
But on the way home she started to stutter and died on me and then wouldn't start, so I thought out of gas and filled her up but she still wouldn't start. Then I found that the extra fuel pump what I beloved to be a bad power connection (drawn from the coil) and got her working again for a while...
But then electrical stuff started to go out, tachometer, fan, wipers, turn signals, which lead me to believe that a fuse had gone but no... Any ideas? She doesn't run proper either, like she lacks power under load. Changed the coil but still no go.
Edit: could the condensator (is this the proper term in English?) be the culprit?
Now after standing a while and she cooled a bit, turn signals and temp gauge started working again.
But on the way home she started to stutter and died on me and then wouldn't start, so I thought out of gas and filled her up but she still wouldn't start. Then I found that the extra fuel pump what I beloved to be a bad power connection (drawn from the coil) and got her working again for a while...
But then electrical stuff started to go out, tachometer, fan, wipers, turn signals, which lead me to believe that a fuse had gone but no... Any ideas? She doesn't run proper either, like she lacks power under load. Changed the coil but still no go.
Edit: could the condensator (is this the proper term in English?) be the culprit?
Now after standing a while and she cooled a bit, turn signals and temp gauge started working again.
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Does sound like you are the "guinea pig" after the rebuild and that it hasn't been driven far since the work done, I trust the purchase price reflects that.
Still if you are happy with it generally then once you have ironed out the wrinkles you will have something to be proud of.
By the way is the battery and generator working well, low voltage may be part of the issue. Some of the wiring in the engine compartment looks recent, so may be worth checking all correct.
If you have a original points and condensor ignition system, it may be worth inspecting the points, two main things the pints gap is correct when open and the condition of the two contacts of the points, generally if condensor is faulty the surface of the contact points will be "blue and pitted" as the condensor reduces arcing at the points etc.
Still if you are happy with it generally then once you have ironed out the wrinkles you will have something to be proud of.
By the way is the battery and generator working well, low voltage may be part of the issue. Some of the wiring in the engine compartment looks recent, so may be worth checking all correct.
If you have a original points and condensor ignition system, it may be worth inspecting the points, two main things the pints gap is correct when open and the condition of the two contacts of the points, generally if condensor is faulty the surface of the contact points will be "blue and pitted" as the condensor reduces arcing at the points etc.
Agree with earth/grounds, or might be ignition switch too. High beam, fan, wipers not working and fuses look good. Will have to check generator even tho it's newly rebuilt too. I'll start working with my trusty old multimeter soon. Points look good and she runs good but just suddenly cuts out. So i'm thinking more of a grounding issue. I'm planning to swap to a pointless distributor system.
Engine was rebuilt at least 1000kms ago and it has run smooth since. The day before yesterday he drove her 110kms closer to where I'm from to make it a shorter trip for me (!), parked at a friends and that night she was out in pouring rain. On my test drive she worked flawless but more rain on my way home and she started acting up.
Seller is incredibly supportive and seriously he actually got a trailer and drove me all the way home! A 800km round trip. He's a super great guy and the definition of a car enthusiast, owns lots of cars including mint Topolino, 500s, 850 spider and many more. He sold the 850 coupé solely because of lack of space to store her, and planned to not sell her at all if i didn't want her. He's sending me another condensator to try out. The sale price was actually cheap. He wasn't looking for money but for the right buyer and I'm honored to be the one.
* Is is the same electrical system and fuse locations, schematics for all 850s? I've only found spider schematics so far on my searches.
And as promised, here are some pictures! She's a lot more bright red than pinkish the cell phone pictures show. Frunk inside shows yellowish color, repainted during her earlier life in Finland.
Engine was rebuilt at least 1000kms ago and it has run smooth since. The day before yesterday he drove her 110kms closer to where I'm from to make it a shorter trip for me (!), parked at a friends and that night she was out in pouring rain. On my test drive she worked flawless but more rain on my way home and she started acting up.
Seller is incredibly supportive and seriously he actually got a trailer and drove me all the way home! A 800km round trip. He's a super great guy and the definition of a car enthusiast, owns lots of cars including mint Topolino, 500s, 850 spider and many more. He sold the 850 coupé solely because of lack of space to store her, and planned to not sell her at all if i didn't want her. He's sending me another condensator to try out. The sale price was actually cheap. He wasn't looking for money but for the right buyer and I'm honored to be the one.
* Is is the same electrical system and fuse locations, schematics for all 850s? I've only found spider schematics so far on my searches.
And as promised, here are some pictures! She's a lot more bright red than pinkish the cell phone pictures show. Frunk inside shows yellowish color, repainted during her earlier life in Finland.
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I got the wiper/fan etc problem sorted out. As simple as a wire had gotten loose from the ignition switch...
She runs good but it's pouring outside so i only gave her a quick spin, not confident that she'll run for long sadly.
She runs good but it's pouring outside so i only gave her a quick spin, not confident that she'll run for long sadly.
Yes I have always like the looks of them, pretty little cars.
I think we've had this debate before but I'm not a fan of wrapping headers, or at least my brain isn't!! All that heat has to go somewhere when the car is shut off, heat rises and therefore it's going right into the head where oil and coolant is no longer moving to disperse this heat therefore your cylinder head temperatures will rise, possibly into the red without you knowing.
Again, that's just my theory and thinking on it.
I agree there are pros and cons
.The only time I personally have done this was when I did a marine conversion and replaced a V6 150hp Volvo Penta petrol engine with a 1997 Fiat Ducato Maxi 2.8 Sofim engine (pre ECU) originally rated at 122hp. I fitted a universal water cooled heat exchanger and intercooler both under the transom away from the engine box, along with a Jabsco water pump on the engine , then adjusted the Bosch injector pump and increased the turbo boost pressure to almost match the boats original performance of 30 knots @10 gallons per hour of 5star petrol, I got to 26knots at 4 gallons to the hour of diesel, so quite happy on a very small budget.
I used the original Ducato turbo and exhaust manifold so not water cooled, but lagged as mentioned and from there I made a stainless steel 4inch exhaust that I plumbed in the water exiting the heat exchanger and intercooler, without the lagging the small area the engine was boxed in would have got quite hot.
I changed the engine oil and filter every year and the oil that came out was much cleaner than all the other diesels I have worked on.
I used the full performance of the engine for 4 years with no problems before selling on.
I get that thought fully, makes sense. But then this oughta be more commonly known with tuners? Usually it's high powered tuned/racing cars that I've seen with wrapped manifolds, and those should be even more prone to break from heat?
Anyhow, a friend of mine suggested vapour lock so I read up on and the symptoms aligned with the trouble I've had. Relocated the fuel supply to the other side of the engine bay, blew air back trough the fuel line to the tank if any junk had gotten stuck and changed fuel filter.
She runs good but starts to missfire when hot, so I'm still thinking condensator or as simple as too hot air supply. Coil gets very hot. Any ideas?
Might try to find electronic distributor, would one of these fit?
https://www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk/PartDetails.aspx?s_pc=ICP-EK089&s_vid=
ICP-EK069,Distributor Electronic Conversion Kit,Electronic Ignition Conversion for Ducellier distributors,ALPINE A310 1.6,ALPINE A310 1.6 Injection,ALPINE 1600 1.6 SC-SI,CITROEN DS 2.3,CITROEN DS 2.3,CITROEN DS 20,CITROEN DS 21,CITROEN BELPHEGOR 350
ICP-EK069,Distributor Electronic Conversion Kit,Electronic Ignition Conversion for Ducellier distributors,ALPINE A310 1.6,ALPINE A310 1.6 Injection,ALPINE 1600 1.6 SC-SI,CITROEN DS 2.3,CITROEN DS 2.3,CITROEN DS 20,CITROEN DS 21,CITROEN BELPHEGOR 350 BELPHEGOR 350,DACIA 1300 1.3,DACIA 1300...
www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk
I'm stuggling to identify my distributor, the 90 degree angled one. Maybe it doesn't matter.
The carburetor is from A112 Abarth, Weber 32 DMTR 38/250
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Re the coil overheating, many years ago I was told the polarity could affect that, I have just looked on internet, some agree but some disagree, so make your own mind up re that.
Another point if working on car with ignition on but not running coil, points and condensor can overheat to the point of failure, I have seen oil pouring out of an old coil and points contacts burnt.
Apparently coils producing higher voltage, whether due to plug gaps too wide or a high performance coil putting out more KVs can run hotter.
Some coils have the terminals marked SW(switch) and CB(contact breaker) and some have + and - .
Internet:- "A coil with reversed polarity will have about a 20% lower output, which may not show up at idle and low rpms, but can cause an engine to miss or stumble under load and at higher engine rpms."
.Another point if working on car with ignition on but not running coil, points and condensor can overheat to the point of failure, I have seen oil pouring out of an old coil and points contacts burnt.
Apparently coils producing higher voltage, whether due to plug gaps too wide or a high performance coil putting out more KVs can run hotter.
Some coils have the terminals marked SW(switch) and CB(contact breaker) and some have + and - .
Internet:- "A coil with reversed polarity will have about a 20% lower output, which may not show up at idle and low rpms, but can cause an engine to miss or stumble under load and at higher engine rpms."
In my attempts on friday i change to a high capacity coil but no difference. So it should run hotter but its get way too hot from a short time.
A faulty condensator seem to give these symptoms from what I've gathered, and an electric ignition wouldn't have the need for one as far as i understand?
A faulty condensator seem to give these symptoms from what I've gathered, and an electric ignition wouldn't have the need for one as far as i understand?
Re condensors and electronic ignition I think it depends what is used to trigger it, some use a "Hall" effect sensor to get a pulse that is used , but some basic versions use the original style points and condensor, which to my mind gives the worst of both Worlds.
Personally I would trust a OEM factory electronic system, but prefer a simple points , coil and condensor set up as usually it can be repaired at the side of the road cheaply as opposed to the tow truck alternative of modern systems.
Re the condensor I may have mentioned before, but if you look at the contact point surfaces, "blue and pitted" = condensor, "nice light grey good" , also correctly gapped is important, though I have seen cars almost zero gap to 2mm still run happily if timed correctly. (wide gap timing fires early , narrow gap fires later, spark at plug happens when points start to open)
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