Defeats the object if you are looking for a small car though. The clue is in the name MINI. The original (Austin) mini was very small and brilliant around the corners (That's why they used it, and won, in the rally series).
Technical Fiat 500 vs Mini Cooper
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Technical Fiat 500 vs Mini Cooper
Defeats the object if you are looking for a small car though. The clue is in the name MINI. The original (Austin) mini was very small and brilliant around the corners (That's why they used it, and won, in the rally series).
PsFiat
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Lots of cars in the 500 segment are 'better' cars, I'm buying my 500s as it's relatively cheap and cheerful, and has some personality. It will be a second car, driving under 10,000kms a year. Some of those 'better' cars are either a lot pricier, eg a Mini, or bland but perform well eg the the Suzuki Swift. The Panda is probably better too, but way too boxy.
You generally buy a car with your heart not your head.
You generally buy a car with your heart not your head.
lil.smartie
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I had a 54 plate cooper with a 6 speed S gearbox (the std ones were made of cheese and this was done before I bought it!) My daily driver is a Colt CZC turbo and since I got the Fiat it's done more miles!
It's a 1.2, less than half the bhp, was getting not much more mpg but it's a real hoot to drive! Don't get me wrong, once the summer hits and it's roof down weather the Colt will be back out! but it's surprised me how much fun it is to drive and since we lowered it it handles too!
It's a 1.2, less than half the bhp, was getting not much more mpg but it's a real hoot to drive! Don't get me wrong, once the summer hits and it's roof down weather the Colt will be back out! but it's surprised me how much fun it is to drive and since we lowered it it handles too!
ahmett
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Guys, with the petrol prices rising and my car returning 33 MPG at best with the AC on, I am thinking of trading in my Fiat for the new Mini One D. The new Mini is lightyears ahead technology-wise than the Fiat, and feels much more modern than the Fiat 500 that has, lets face it, 10 year old body and technology. No refurbishments can change that, not even the TFT display (wow what a difference!!).
I would pay like 200 Euros in monthly payments that I don't have to pay right now, but I would be saving 150 euros a month in Fuel.
The price of petrol in Greece 1.65 Euros
The price of diesel in Greece, 1.3 Euros.
I also get free road tax (down from 250 euros a year), and free 5 year servicing. At the end of it, with my car having 60,000 miles on it and me fearing my Dualogic gearbox wont last much longer, I am seriously considering saying bye bye to the Fiat. It is a fun car, but it feels 'cheap to drive' compared to the Mini, even with the Billie B14's.
Fiat need a new 500 urgently, because its really showing its age now. I can basically see no difference between my 2010 one, and the current 2014 one. So I am not saying bye bye as I haven't made my final decision yet, but this is the most serious I have ever been about changing cars.
I would pay like 200 Euros in monthly payments that I don't have to pay right now, but I would be saving 150 euros a month in Fuel.
The price of petrol in Greece 1.65 Euros
The price of diesel in Greece, 1.3 Euros.
I also get free road tax (down from 250 euros a year), and free 5 year servicing. At the end of it, with my car having 60,000 miles on it and me fearing my Dualogic gearbox wont last much longer, I am seriously considering saying bye bye to the Fiat. It is a fun car, but it feels 'cheap to drive' compared to the Mini, even with the Billie B14's.
Fiat need a new 500 urgently, because its really showing its age now. I can basically see no difference between my 2010 one, and the current 2014 one. So I am not saying bye bye as I haven't made my final decision yet, but this is the most serious I have ever been about changing cars.
If you are stuck in Athens traffic I'd be going for a petrol. If you can accept the lower seating position and the extra size I think it's a no-brainer: Mini.
The Mini sounds like a great overall deal, and I also think that compared with the 500 the new Mini isn't expensive, for what you get. I love the 500 but I'm hoping Fiat has a whole new modern car coming soon. But I don't think they do.
The Mini sounds like a great overall deal, and I also think that compared with the 500 the new Mini isn't expensive, for what you get. I love the 500 but I'm hoping Fiat has a whole new modern car coming soon. But I don't think they do.
Diesel MPG will be crap in dense traffic, and it'll be a crap drive. Petrol would be the way to go IMO.
ahmett
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Thing is in the weekends I drive quite fast at about 140 kmh and that's when the Fiat 500 dies with the fuel economy. + The Mini has start stop. And guys I really need to remind you, diesel is 30% cheaper than petrol in Greece. If it was more expensive than petrol like it is in the UK then we would be having a whole other argument. The Mini One is much cheaper than the Diesel in Greece, the Mini One starts at 15,000 Euros and it comes packed with many goodies including AC, Start Stop, Stability Control as standard.
Looks like a Mini then. Diesel sounds okay, as long as it gets out of the traffic regularly. And it is a modern engine after all.
That's the key difference.
40% off your fuel bill (10% for the greater energy content of derv + 30% from the price difference) is a big number for most folks and one that can't just be dismissed.
In the UK, a diesel 500 makes no economic sense whatsoever; it costs another £2.5k, the fuel is more expensive, and the extra lifetime servicing costs are likely to be at least another £2.5k on top of that.
But in Greece, the numbers stack up differently.
ahmett
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don't worry i'll 'open up the engine' daily. I just hit the rev limiter on the 1.4 in 1st gear yesterday at 7,250 rpm! Don't worry, the engine was warm, with coolant, and full of oil = )
ahmett
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and that with me doing 15,000 miles a year! so we are talking thousands here.
MarginWalker
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:slayer: I reckon you might start missing all that free-revving, addictive, naturally aspirated goodness if you get rid of your 1.4! Three-pot diesels need some clever balancing and can put heavy torsional loads on the crank, but there's no doubt they are torquey and very economical. A very different driving experience is ahead if you decide to trade but there will be plenty of things about a third-gen Mini that will make you smile.
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Ahmett, the worst thing about you buying a Mini is that we'll all miss you if you're not here .
.ahmett
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Both the BMW dealers in Athens gave me a shockingly bad trade in price (BMW gave me 5,500 Euros, Fiat gave me 8,000 Euros but there is no way I am trading in my current 500 for another one), so unless I sell it privately I will be staying here with my Fiat 500 for the time being it seems!Ahmett, the worst thing about you buying a Mini is that we'll all miss you if you're not here
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ahmett
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I will miss you guys also. There is no way the Mini forum can be this good.Ahmett, the worst thing about you buying a Mini is that we'll all miss you if you're not here
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Quite the opposite, diesels run very lean, as lean around 50:1 A/F at idle (can be as lean as 200:1 during overrun etc), which means at idle you're using roughly half of what a petrol would be.
Diesels are most efficient at 100% load (Ahmett will be happy to hear), so you just need to mash the throttle when the opportunity allows.
Switching my MB to a VW TDi gave me a 40% improvement in efficiency for a vehicle the exact same weight and very nearly the same size (the new one being a bit bigger). I've also got 40% more power and more than double the torque. This is in city traffic with a life time average speed of 27km/h.
I'm on about short, and stop start journeys. For these journeys a petrol will always be better on overall fuel economy. Petrol engine will be up to full temp within 1/4 of the time a DERV will be, and from personal expereince use less fuel on heavy stop start use. This is what I based my post on. I always take petrol Panda on the gym run if I can, 3 miles each way, always out performs the Diesel Bravo on economy.
On a long run though, then Diesel it is
ahmett
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I drive about 50 miles a day, so the diesel would win it each time.I'm on about short, and stop start journeys. For these journeys a petrol will always be better on overall fuel economy. Petrol engine will be up to full temp within 1/4 of the time a DERV will be, and from personal expereince use less fuel on heavy stop start use. This is what I based my post on. I always take petrol Panda on the gym run if I can, 3 miles each way, always out performs the Diesel Bravo on economy.
On a long run though, then Diesel it is
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UFI reaches his 88 degree 'normal' water temp within 2km, worst case. The TDi does about 15km before hitting 78 degrees, with full temp being 88-92. This takes about 20km, which means I don't always get up to temp in the mornings. This is with the grills 50% blocked too.
Really, all that shows is how much heat is being wasted by spark ignition engines and how ineffcient they really are.
Yes, there's an economy hit from having a cold engine, but I've never experienced a 40% hit (unless you're still in open loop, but UFI's already in closed loop within 500m). On a 4km trip to the shops, my petrol MB would be showing 16l/100km on it's very accurate DIY fuel meter. The TDi shows around 10 at that time on it's less accurate OBD gauge, this is only 10% worse than my lifetime average, the petrol's warm up deficit is around 20% based on it's lifetime average. Keep in mind that the petrol is already 'fully' up to temp at this stage while the TDi is at maybe 40 degrees.
Comparing an early 700kg Panda or a later <1000kg Panda to a Bravo's 1300kg+(?) isn't fair. I could compare UFI's ~960kg to my 1710kg TDi and come to the same conclusion.
Given a choice, I agree that taking a petrol car on a short trip in the better option, but that's mainly to be kind to the DPF.
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