Technical Fiat 500 1.2 Pop Spark Plugs

[millns84]

Well I've spent just over an hour reading this thread and found it very informative.

I own a 2012 Panda Pop and have been doing some experimenting with fuel consumption and general feel of the car. First mod, well not a mod really, was to use Tesco Momentum fuel which can give better MPG, which driving a brand new car might not be very accurate as I had to get used to the car as well as the engine bedding in properly although all things considered I'm getting 57mpg up from 55mpg previously.

I've also added a Piper X panel filter which I noticed gives a slightly better throttle response and now I've ordered some IXU22's to try out.

I'm approaching this as a sceptic but any improvement no matter how small would be very welcome and as stated throughout the thread, could also save on future servicing costs.

 

[loveshandbags]

Well I've spent just over an hour reading this thread and found it very informative.

I own a 2012 Panda Pop and have been doing some experimenting with fuel consumption and general feel of the car. First mod, well not a mod really, was to use Tesco Momentum fuel which can give better MPG, which driving a brand new car might not be very accurate as I had to get used to the car as well as the engine bedding in properly although all things considered I'm getting 57mpg up from 55mpg previously.

I've also added a Piper X panel filter which I noticed gives a slightly better throttle response and now I've ordered some IXU22's to try out.

I'm approaching this as a sceptic but any improvement no matter how small would be very welcome and as stated throughout the thread, could also save on future servicing costs.

Realise that you've got the 1.2 but in the US on the FiatUSA500 site they had considered changing the standard NGK plug to an iridium one on the 1.4 MA...

What spark plugs are used in the Fiat 500?

When the Fiat 500 comes here to America in late 2010, the plug specified might change. The NGK DCPR7E-N-10 might be exchanged for a long life iridium/platinum plug due to US EPA regulations requiring cars to maintain a certain level of tune over the course of many tens of thousands of miles.

Would be surprised if you don't notice any difference with the Densos fitted and hopefully the £40 spend will be worth it. On my current T-jet I reckon it's giving another 1-2mpg and seems to rev a lot better.

In relation to your foam panel filter I found that a cotton gauze gave a better response. Had the ITG which is foam based but prefer the K&N since it's easier to clean and sounds a bit better although I reckon it does not filter as well as paper or foam.

If you are looking to tinker a bit more another easy mod is a crankcase breather but it may only be noticeable on a turbo charged engine. This mod has its drawbacks but get the impression that it might marginally improve the octane of the fuel which is beneficial on high compression engines.

 

[millns84]

I'm hoping the iridium plugs give something, but I am a bit of a sceptic at the moment. They got delivered this morning so I'm hoping to get them in whenever I've got a spare 30mins.

The reason I went for PiperX over K&N was a bit daft really as it was just as they're made in the UK and I came over all patriotic. Although since buying it I did read somewhere that the filtration is superior to others. I never wanted more noise out of it so not really an issue for me.

 

[loveshandbags]

I'm hoping the iridium plugs give something, but I am a bit of a sceptic at the moment. They got delivered this morning so I'm hoping to get them in whenever I've got a spare 30mins.

The reason I went for PiperX over K&N was a bit daft really as it was just as they're made in the UK and I came over all patriotic. Although since buying it I did read somewhere that the filtration is superior to others. I never wanted more noise out of it so not really an issue for me.

I run a pipercross crank case breather and did run a CAI from pipercross on a 1.4. Some have used a BMC cotton gauze air filter which is dearer than the K&N because it's Italian to keep it more authentic so I can identify with your reasons. Reckon that the extra induction noise from the K&N is because it's not filtering as well despite the oil but personally I was disappointed with the ITG foam filter and felt little or no difference in responsiveness compared with the paper one. Nouva do a CAI for the 1.2 but I have seen no feedback on the FF on one which is not surprising given the price.

Would be very interestted on your feedback after you get a chance to fit the Densos. If it was me I would widen the gap to 1.0 mm very carefully. There are instructions on how to do it back in this thread.

 

[millns84]

I did read about the gap being 0.8mm as opposed to 1mm but I've seen this :

http://www.globaldenso.com/cgi-bin/...e=500+(150A)&filename=4w-28.txt&action=search

So not sure now?

 

[jrkitching]

If it was me I would widen the gap to 1.0 mm very carefully.

I'd do this too if I were looking to maximise performance. However, noticing this:

although all things considered I'm getting 57mpg up from 55mpg previously.

it seems you're a bit of an ecodriver - in which case, you may do better to leave them at 0.8 (a slightly slower charge burn will help smooth out the engine below 2000rpm.)

You may (just) be able to detect an improvement in economy, but the real benefits will be better starting, smoother idling, ability to run at lower rpm, longer life & more consistent performance over the lifetime of the plugs.

Ir plugs are fragile & you need to fit them carefully - access on the 1.2 isn't brilliant & is improved if you remove the coil pack & plug leads completely - it's just 3 10mm bolts & an obvious multipin connector.

 

[millns84]

So the gap is definitely 0.8mm despite the Denso website? I don't have anything that would be accurate enough to measure such a small difference so I can't check myself.

You're right that I'm a bit of an eco-driver, although I'd appreciate any power the plugs could give. Assuming that the optimal gap is 1.0mm, wouldn't that give the best performance and fuel economical or am I barking up the wrong tree? I just would have thought the OEM would have decided on that gap for the best of both worlds.

I've changed the plugs on 1.2 FIRE engines a few times (my old man's got a GP) and can just about manage without removing the coil pack.

Speaking of changing the plugs, I feel like I've failed as a man today with my spark plug wrench as I couldn't budge them earlier. I need an extension surprisingly for a new car, but my dad's borrowed mine so I'll have to wait unfortunately. Very frustrating as I was actually looking forward to trying the plugs. I couldn't believe it when they wouldn't budge! :bang:

I re-set the trip computer last week with the last fill of the tank and I'm now averaging 66.3mpg thanks to a long trip today on A roads and country lanes. I've not seen that figure before on anything I've driven and I could have even taken it easier over the Cat & Fiddle pass but couldn't help but test the handling

I'll update the thread once I've put the Ir plugs in.

 

[loveshandbags]

So the gap is definitely 0.8mm despite the Denso website? I don't have anything that would be accurate enough to measure such a small difference so I can't check myself.

You're right that I'm a bit of an eco-driver, although I'd appreciate any power the plugs could give. Assuming that the optimal gap is 1.0mm, wouldn't that give the best performance and fuel economical or am I barking up the wrong tree? I just would have thought the OEM would have decided on that gap for the best of both worlds.

I've changed the plugs on 1.2 FIRE engines a few times (my old man's got a GP) and can just about manage without removing the coil pack.

Speaking of changing the plugs, I feel like I've failed as a man today with my spark plug wrench as I couldn't budge them earlier. I need an extension surprisingly for a new car, but my dad's borrowed mine so I'll have to wait unfortunately. Very frustrating as I was actually looking forward to trying the plugs. I couldn't believe it when they wouldn't budge! :bang:

I re-set the trip computer last week with the last fill of the tank and I'm now averaging 66.3mpg thanks to a long trip today on A roads and country lanes. I've not seen that figure before on anything I've driven and I could have even taken it easier over the Cat & Fiddle pass but couldn't help but test the handling

I'll update the thread once I've put the Ir plugs in.

Note that the gap recommended by Denso is 0.9mm. When I fitted the IXU22 on the 1.4 I left them standard and I'm assuming they were pre-set at 0.8mm. Noticed no difference in 'economy' - my average stayed at 35mpg. Always felt that it might have increased a bit if I had set them at 1.0mm but then I would not be classified as an eco-driver.

On balance I'd probably leave them as they're set and not taper with the gap. Even measuring the gap is a risk. As JR has said - the tip is delicate.

 

[loveshandbags]

You're right that I'm a bit of an eco-driver, although I'd appreciate any power the plugs could give. Assuming that the optimal gap is 1.0mm, wouldn't that give the best performance and fuel economical or am I barking up the wrong tree? I just would have thought the OEM would have decided on that gap for the best of both worlds.

I've changed the plugs on 1.2 FIRE engines a few times (my old man's got a GP) and can just about manage without removing the coil pack.

You wouldn't get any more power (but you will get efficiency) from the Densos but JR did find something that might get a fraction of a second if you align. Tip / Guide on how to do it is here and JR managed to get 3 aligned but it might take a bit more than 30 minutes.

 

[millns84]

Well I've finally fitted the iridium plugs this afternoon, and had forgotten you need midget hands to change plugs 2 & 3!

First impressions are good - pulls away smoother, and seems happier in higher gears at low speeds (i.e. 30mph in 5th is really smooth now). I'm also fairly certain that it's pulling better throughout the rev range, but particularly under 2,000rpm which I think has been mentioned in this thread previously.

Fuel consumption is 63.9mpg; slightly down on the average from last week (I only reset when I fill up for a more accurate economy figure), but I imagine this is due to more city driving in heavy traffic today. Not to mention I also gave it some stick when I got the chance to test the plugs.

I'm quite happy with them at the moment but will probably check them in around 500 miles for wet fouling which I have heard can be an issue with a colder plug.

 

[jrkitching]

Well I've finally fitted the iridium plugs this afternoon, and had forgotten you need midget hands to change plugs 2 & 3!

That's why I suggest removing the coil pack for better (though still not brilliant) access .

First impressions are good - pulls away smoother, and seems happier in higher gears at low speeds (i.e. 30mph in 5th is really smooth now). I'm also fairly certain that it's pulling better throughout the rev range, but particularly under 2,000rpm which I think has been mentioned in this thread previously.

Exactly the same results as I got. Both my cars have done around 1000 miles on the new plugs now; starting, and running below 2000rpm are noticeably improved. I think there is a very small fuel economy benefit, but this is indirect & comes from being able to change up a couple of hundred rpm earlier - the improvement comes from being able to drive more comfortably at lower rpm rather than from any inherent difference in the plugs. (This is essentially the same reason why the 1.2 is so much better as an ecoCar than the TA)

The difference is more noticeable in the Panda (for which the new plugs are a better match); perhaps suggesting that the OEM projected tip plugs in the Euro5 engine may confer a tiny benefit which you lose by fitting Ir plugs. Overall I'd say the benefits of the Ir's outweigh any losses from sacrificing the tip projection, but it's a shame than neither NGK nor Denso see fit to produce a projected tip Ir equivalent to the OEM plug.

Fuel consumption is 63.9mpg; slightly down on the average from last week (I only reset when I fill up for a more accurate economy figure)...

The internal computer isn't accurate enough to be able to make comparisons at this level; why not put the car on Fuelly & see how it's really doing?

 

[millns84]

The difference is more noticeable in the Panda (for which the new plugs are a better match); perhaps suggesting that the OEM projected tip plugs in the Euro5 engine may confer a tiny benefit which you lose by fitting Ir plugs. Overall I'd say the benefits of the Ir's outweigh any losses from sacrificing the tip projection, but it's a shame than neither NGK nor Denso see fit to produce a projected tip Ir equivalent to the OEM plug.

My Panda has the 169A4000 engine which is the same as the 500 if I remember correctly? There's definitely an improvement, but like you say a shame that the plug manufacturers don't make (as of yet) an exact equivalent with the projected tip.

As my car has only done around 1000 miles I'm pleased that I can feel a difference with the plugs. I was thinking that when others and yourself changed much older plugs than mine, that the difference may have been down to simply fitting new plugs but I think the early impressions of the Iridium's is that they are a superior plug

The internal computer isn't accurate enough to be able to make comparisons at this level; why not put the car on Fuelly & see how it's really doing?

I think I will from the next fill up. Having worked out the MPG with a good old calculator, it's about 2mpg higher than reality (Italian optimism ).

 

[jrkitching]

My Panda has the 169A4000 engine which is the same as the 500 if I remember correctly? There's definitely an improvement, but like you say a shame that the plug manufacturers don't make (as of yet) an exact equivalent with the projected tip.

Yes, the Euro5 Panda uses the same projected tip plugs as the 500. (My Panda is the Euro4 variant with the lower compression engine - interestingly it runs slightly more smoothly below 1500 rpm than my 500 & has shown a greater benefit from fitting Ir plugs).

but I think the early impressions of the Iridium's is that they are a superior plug

That IMO is beyond question. There's no comparison & FIAT's decision to develop a new Cu core plug for the 500 is indicative of a design mentality that would have most right-thinking prospective purchasers looking for a different marque at the earliest opportunity.

 

[loveshandbags]

Fuel consumption is 63.9mpg; slightly down on the average from last week (I only reset when I fill up for a more accurate economy figure), but I imagine this is due to more city driving in heavy traffic today. Not to mention I also gave it some stick when I got the chance to test the plugs.

I'm quite happy with them at the moment but will probably check them in around 500 miles for wet fouling which I have heard can be an issue with a colder plug.

Sounds like you're pleased with the results so far. Amazed at the mpg readout figures and even if you allow for a margin of error you appear to be 'up there' with JR in getting 60+ mpg.:devil:

In relation to the heat rating of the Denso iridiums I was of the opinion that they were rated exactly the same as the OEM NGKs.

That IMO is beyond question. There's no comparison & FIAT's decision to develop a new Cu core plug for the 500 is indicative of a design mentality that would have most right-thinking prospective purchasers looking for a different marque at the earliest opportunity.

I wonder if they will bring out an iridium plug for the Twin Airs. The T-jets and charged Multi-airs are using them as a standard fit. They would have a slightly 'colder rating' than the NA equivalents.

 

[millns84]

Sounds like you're pleased with the results so far. Amazed at the mpg readout figures and even if you allow for a margin of error you appear to be 'up there' with JR in getting 60+ mpg.:devil:

In relation to the heat rating of the Denso iridiums I was of the opinion that they were rated exactly the same as the OEM NGKs.

Yes very pleased, I expect the economy to improve as I should hopefully avoid city driving for the next few drives so I might get up to my record of 66.8mpg or beyond.

I was under the impression that iridium plugs ran cooler but stand to be corrected. There was a discussion over on DW where a member had used them in his Octavia VRS and they had wet fouled quite badly and they put this down to the lower temperature of the plugs.

 

[306maxi]

Looking at fitting plugs to my 500 because at 13k since the last service, they're well past their best and the car is quite hesitant to pull away sometimes.

IXU22 or VXU22? Also, jrkitching, did you use spark plug lead pliers when you changed your plugs?

Hoping to service the 500 for the first time out of warranty this weekend or the one after that.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Also, jrkitching, did you use spark plug lead pliers when you changed your plugs?

Come again

 

[306maxi]

Come again

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/297458-plug-lead-pliers.html

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Ah right, shouldn't need it on the 1.2

 

[jrkitching]

Looking at fitting plugs to my 500 because at 13k since the last service, they're well past their best and the car is quite hesitant to pull away sometimes.

IXU22 or VXU22?

You can use either - it's down to whether you think it's worth paying the extra £££ for the 'tough' version of the Denso's. If you're going iridium, you can also use the NGK DCPR7EIX, which may be a little less expensive. None of these have the extra 2mm tip projection of the OEM copper ZKR7A-10's - AFAIK noone makes a directly comparable Ir plug for the Euro5 1.2 FIRE.

Nothing really to add since fitting the DCPR7EIX's last September - they do the job. Starting performance has been good through the cold weather & the initial brief period of rough running I sometimes experienced as the OEM plugs got near end-of-life hasn't recurred.

Also, jrkitching, did you use spark plug lead pliers when you changed your plugs?

They'd make the job slightly easier but as MEP rightly says, you can manage quite well without them. The OEM leads have long-reach caps where it matters & you won't damage anything if you are careful to pull the caps and not the leads.

For better access when removing & refitting the plugs, I'd recommend you remove the coil pack & leads complete - only 3 bolts & a multiconnector & it takes less than a minute.