Technical Fiat 500 1.2 Pop Spark Plugs

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Technical Fiat 500 1.2 Pop Spark Plugs

:yeahthat:

And for those folks with discs all round, I'd say the rears could be even worse in this regard.

If I ever got to design a proper eco car, I'd specify drums all round, for this precise reason.
It's not a problem I've had on other cars though. With my 504 I drove that thing through mud and massive water splashes and it never had any problem...... I have a rather fantastic picture of my 504 with all headlights blazing kicking up a nice big wall of water :)
 
http://www.sudco.com/spark.html#wash

American but I'm sure they would ship washers worldwide. :)

That's where I found the NGK part number. Unfortunately they don't sell direct :(.

Robin would find the home page more interesting ;).

It's not a problem I've had on other cars though.

Yes, but other manufacturers sometimes specify materials with a degree of corrosion resistance for components fitted in areas which will be exposed to the elements :bang:.
 
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Are you going to angle the electrode for maximum combustion efficiency?
:)

If I'm feeling sufficiently anal I might mark up the plugs, do a test fit & swap 'em round to get the best alignment ;).

I was never to sure which was the 'right side' i.e. understand that the plug should be aligned on the intake side.:confused:
Also with the 1.4 because they were so far down seeing the 'mark' might may not be all that easy.
One the benefits of the Bosch 4 plug was that it was always facing the right direction but since iridium is better than platinum so you would be better off with iridium if they were aligned correctly.
Don't know how much of a difference it makes ?
 
I was never to sure which was the 'right side' i.e. understand that the plug should be aligned on the intake side.:confused:

Depends somewhat on the gas flow characteristics of the head. Spec series racers looking for that last bit of 'edge' experiment to find the optimal position - but for a 1.2 Panda I'd be happy just to keep the side electrode somewhere round the back of the combustion chamber, out of the way. It's more about avoiding the worst position than trying to find the best one.

Also with the 1.4 because they were so far down seeing the 'mark' might may not be all that easy.

Once you've put the new plug in whatever collection of sockets & extensions you've assembled to fit it with, you can always mark the electrode position on the top of the last extension bar, where you can see it :).

One the benefits of the Bosch 4 plug was that it was always facing the right direction.

One of the disadvantages of the Bosch 4 plug was that it was always facing the wrong direction. And you never could tell which of the 4 electrodes the spark was actually going to jump to. They hold the dubious distinction of being the most disappointing set of plugs I've ever fitted to anything & my set went into the scrap bin after 6000 miles :mad:.

Don't know how much of a difference it makes ?

Drag racers reckon it can shave up to a tenth off the standing quarter mile time.

1.2 Panda owners reckon the only thing it'll shave off is a bit of extra skin from their knuckles while they're fannying about trying to get the best alignment ;).
 
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One of the disadvantages of the Bosch 4 plug was that it was always facing the wrong direction. And you never could tell which of the 4 electrodes the spark was actually going to jump to. They hold the dubious distinction of being the most disappointing set of plugs I've ever fitted to anything & my set went into the scrap bin after 6000 miles :mad:.

I once used them in a MX5 and they 'deadened' the car so I ended up reverting back to a set of 'copper' NGKs.

This video explains why they don't perform and NGK don't recommend that design anymore.


Once you've put the new plug in whatever collection of sockets & extensions you've assembled to fit it with, you can always mark the electrode position on the top of the last extension bar, where you can see it :).

Good idea. I would probably mark both the spark plug and the extension bar to make it easier.
Just to clarify the optimium position of the single electrode spark plug - the 'open section' would be facing the windscreen with the electrode side of the spark plug on the bumper side e.g. on the 1.4. Car picked is the T-jet but it would have the same engine 'positioning' as the 500 1.4 / 1.2.

Depends somewhat on the gas flow characteristics of the head. Spec series racers looking for that last bit of 'edge' experiment to find the optimal position - but for a 1.2 Panda I'd be happy just to keep the side electrode somewhere round the back of the combustion chamber, out of the way. It's more about avoiding the worst position than trying to find the best one.

Did read that some buy 2 sets and pick the 'best' 4 plugs to get the optimum alignment to avoid using 'washers' so that the plugs are torqued correctly.

Drag racers reckon it can shave up to a tenth off the standing quarter mile time.
1.2 Panda owners reckon the only thing it'll shave off is a bit of extra skin from their knuckles while they're fannying about trying to get the best alignment ;).

Can't imagine a dealer obliging a customer on the 'correct alignment' on a set of spark plugs give the quoted labour charges.:)

Came across this clip and you can see why iridium is the standard issue on the T-jets given the compression that it can run at on high boost.
TA might also benefit.:idea:
 

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Just to clarify the optimium position of the single electrode spark plug - the 'open section' would be facing the windscreen with the electrode side of the spark plug on the bumper side

Are you sure it's the same on the 8V engine? My instinct would be to try to get the electrode somewhere near the position I've marked in red on the attached diagram; i.e. out of the way of the gas flow with the unobstructed part angled slightly toward the inlet valve. On the 1.2, that would seem to put it on the windscreen side of the head.
 

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The deed is done & with a bit of selective assembly, I managed to get 3 of the four plugs optimally aligned (y). Initial impressions are favourable & if all goes well over the next few weeks, I'll get another set for the 500. I suspect the advantages of having Ir plugs will outweigh the benefit of the 500 projected tip design & in the Panda they run just fine with the factory set 0.8 gap (which should put less stress on the coil packs).

Picture attached for those who missed it in the Panda section.
 

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The deed is done & with a bit of selective assembly, I managed to get 3 of the four plugs optimally aligned (y). Initial impressions are favourable & if all goes well over the next few weeks, I'll get another set for the 500. I suspect the advantages of having Ir plugs will outweigh the benefit of the 500 projected tip design & in the Panda they run just fine with the factory set 0.8 gap (which should put less stress on the coil packs).

Picture attached for those who missed it in the Panda section.

Would you consider replacing one of the plugs that is not aligned with one from a new set. Also given that the 1.2 has the 'extended tip' could you risk replacing the thick washer with a thinner one to get the alignment ?

It will be interesting to see if the MPG increases with the new set on Mrs Jrkitching's Panda.

From a recent round trip in the 155B my 'fuel economy' is still holding up - getting 45mpg readout :). Had a spirited outbound (off the toll roads were possible) but kept motorway speeds down on the tolled roads on the return leg in the 65-70mph. This included quite a bit of 'getting across town' and getting stuck in traffic. I would have got less in the F500 1.4 with possibly a 40 mpg readout. Not too sure if the Denso Iridiums have anything to do with it since the crankcase breather & the K&N couldn't make any difference.;)
 

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Would you consider replacing the one of the plugs that is not aligned with one from a new set. Also given that the 1.2 has the 'extended tip' could you risk replacing the thick washer with a thinner one to get the alignment ?

Knowing my luck, I'd probably get through half a dozen before finding one with the alignment I'd need!

It will be interesting to see if the MPG increases with the new set on Mrs Jrkitching's Panda.

Apparently it managed 68mpg on the trip this morning on an 18 mile commute from a cold start :). LadyKitching reports that it 'seems to be running smoother' & if that translates into better 5th gear flexibility, then I think there's another couple of mpg to be had. Time will tell & I'm reserving judgment until I've run a few tankfuls through.

I'm curious to see how they'll perform in the 500 & will probably bring forward its plug change & do them in a week or two :). I'm thinking it may be the cure for the occasional seemingly-random spluttery start which several of us have noticed from time to time.

From a recent round trip in the 155B my 'fuel economy' is still holding up - getting 45mpg readout :). Had a spirited outbound (off the toll roads were possible) but kept motorway speeds down on the tolled roads on the return leg in the 65-70mph. This included quite a bit of 'getting across town' and getting stuck in traffic. I would have got less in the F500 1.4 with possibly a 40 mpg readout. Not too sure if the Denso Iridiums have anything to do with it since the crankcase breather & the K&N couldn't make any difference.;)

I'm now thinking fitting a decent set of plugs could be one of the simplest & most worthwhile 'upgrades' for the 500/Panda/Ka, but in the absence of a commercially-available projected tip iridium upgrade, 1.2 owners will need to step a little further outside the box.
 
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Apparently it managed 68mpg on the trip this morning on an 18 mile commute from a cold start :). LadyKitching reports that it 'seems to be running smoother' & if that translates into better 5th gear flexibility, then I think there's another couple of mpg to be had. Time will tell & I'm reserving judgment until I've run a few tankfuls through.

That's brillant.(y)
Wouldn't do if Mrs jrkitching was to beat your mpg.:devil::slayer:
 
I'm now thinking fitting a decent set of plugs could be one of the simplest & most worthwhile 'upgrades' for the 500/Panda/Ka, but in the absence of a commercially-available projected tip iridium upgrade, 1.2 owners will need to step a little further outside the box.

The 500 is now noticeably rougher than the Panda when pulling away at low rpm, so I pulled one of the plugs for an inspection this morning, and at 13000 miles they're basically shot. The projected tip design looks like it gets a bit more themal stress (see comparative photo with the standard tip plugs used in the Euro4 1.2 engine).

Being well impressed with the Ir plugs I've just fitted to the Panda, I've taken the plunge & ordered up another set of DCPR7EIX's, figuring the benefits of these plugs will more than compensate for sacrificing the projected tip.

I'll let you all know how they perform next week.
 

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The 500 is now noticeably rougher than the Panda when pulling away at low rpm, so I pulled one of the plugs for an inspection this morning, and at 13000 miles they're basically shot. The projected tip design looks like it gets a bit more themal stress (see comparative photo with the standard tip plugs used in the Euro4 1.2 engine).

Being well impressed with the Ir plugs I've just fitted to the Panda, I've taken the plunge & ordered up another set of DCPR7EIX's, figuring the benefits of these plugs will more than compensate for sacrificing the projected tip.

I'll let you all know how they perform next week.

Good getting the update JR. (y) Some things can't been seen on a RR in relation to 'improvements' and it's often in the 'feel' on the trottle.

I had to go down to a funeral yesterday in the 'middle' of the country and when I plugged in the destination, the sat nav gave me 11.20am with the service starting at 11am. I can't totally blame the OH with does this look right, etc. Being a little 'sensible' arrived shortly after 11am with an average readout of 34mpg. On the way back took it handy and pulled the average back to 42mpg. From memory on a similar trip before the Densos, etc. I would have struggled to average 39-40mpg. So it's not just the weather.

From a quick read on the Panda thread the bi-ethanol content in the petrol probably isn't doing the standard NGKs any favours.
 
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From a quick read on the Panda thread the bi-ethanol content in the petrol probably isn't doing the standard NGKs any favours.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with that one. Putting ethanol in fuel is the automotive equivalent of watering the beer; it's being done in a most underhand way and as usual it's the poor consumers that will ultimately pay the price :mad:. Apart from its obvious effect on economy, I have serious concerns about its long-term effect on engine life, especially those which do little mileage; only time will tell.
 
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What does ethanol do to engines? I know it's not exactly kind to rubber components

There's a 'nice' explanation here and the name of the mechanic is worth noting.;)
My understanding is that by having ethanol in the petrol it has less energy but has more octane so to offset the drop in mpg you have to 'tune' to engine to get the benefit of the increased octane.
The current blend of 5% is going to increase to 10% shortly. Real issue is that ethanol attracts moisture so it's not good to have a car sitting in storage with fuel in it and it's causing problems for classic cars.
Over here we had E85 that was heavily government subsidised but it's now gone. Cars were been sold that were bio-fuel that have been designed with the ethanol blend in mind. I would guess that it can cause the engine to rust internally. IMHO if bio-fuel can be produced as a by-product it's OK since it reduces dependancy on imported fuel & world wide stock levels.
 
There's a 'nice' explanation here and the name of the mechanic is worth noting.;)

AFAIK he's no relation ;).

My understanding is that by having ethanol in the petrol it has less energy but has more octane so to offset the drop in mpg you have to 'tune' to engine to get the benefit of the increased octane.

Pure ethanol has an octane rating of 113 but that does not mean E5/E10 fuels are higher octane - the oil companies just blend other lower octane feedstocks to compensate - so 'tuning' the engine in this way will have no effect :mad:. The end product you buy does not have a higher octane rating.

The current blend of 5% is going to increase to 10% shortly.

The internet is swamped with articles highlighting the problems caused by adding ethanol to petrol & I suspect there will be even worse long term effects which folks aren't going to be aware of until, er, the long term :mad::mad:.

Ethanol attracts water & this will cause any unprotected ferrous parts in the engine to corrode. If you look closely at the spark plug pics I posted earlier you can see where the rust has formed, and no doubt some of these rust particles will have become dislodged - another justification for more frequent oil changes.

Fuel companies are laughing all the way to the bank because adding ethanol is a cheap way to get the octane rating they need & they can blend less expensive feedstocks. No prizes for guessing who's going to end up paying the price :mad::mad::mad:.

For classic car owners, it's a nightmare. Some are sticking to using 4star leaded fuel, but availability is extremely limited & the price last weekend in Hampshire was a mind-numbing £2.97/litre :eek:. In the past, you could produce a decent alternative at home by blending four parts unleaded with one part 100LL AVGAS, but the addition of ethanol to pump petrol has put an end to that :mad::mad::mad::mad:.
 
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