Technical Faulty Crank Position sensor?

[katanabandit1]

Last week my sisters 1.9 jtd MW refused to start so she got the AA out to try to help. The technician said the fuel pump would be broke and seen as it was bank holiday there was no point in having the car recovered to a garage as it would just sit there all weekend.
Suspecting this to be rubbish as it seemed strange that the car hadn't had any problems the day before I went round to have a look.
Miracle upon miricale it fired up after a few turns of the key but ran like a pot dog at first. After it had cleared itself it had run fine for a week or so. We put it down to the diesel maybe freezing as it was extremely cold when it happened. Anyway the car ran fine for a week but its done it again and will not start again the weather is absolutely freezing. We had the car towed to our independant garage who have put it on their examiner and it was coming up with a couple of faults. 1 of them being crank position sensor! I have read many posts on this sensor and problems it can cause but none that I have read so far have said they were unable to get the car to start.
Basically what happens is you turn the car over and it barks as if it is going to start then just stops coming up with " engine fault" on display in the dash ( at which point you think No SH!T SHERLOCK)lol.
The garage has checked to see if fuel if getting through and at the correct pressure which it is. But they aren't sure that it is the crank sensor either as they have spoken to a FIAT Technician and he has told them that the diagnostic computer will come up with those faults anyway when they wont start but it doesn't meen that thats the fault. They have suggested to them that it could be a faulty imobiliser. They have still a couple of tests to do but they say but wont be able to do them till late monday as they are extremely busy at the moment. I would appreciate any idea's on what it could be. Many of the symtoms suggest it is the crank position sensor but none of the posts on here are quite the same.

Any thoughts?

 

[NumanR]

Crank position sensor normally fails when hot, and when over about 50,000 miles. Crank sensor error does not come up as a usual error, so I would ignore what your technician has been told. Crank sensor signal is checked by the ecu by comparing it to the phase sensor on the cam shaft, Normally if the sensor signal is faulty you get a synchronicity error, not a crank sensor error. You could check the resistence of the crank sensor which from memory should be 860 ohms plus or minus 10% at 20 degrees c

 

[katanabandit1]

Thanks, I'll pass the info onto our techs.

 

[katanabandit1]

Forgot to ask if you think it maybe due to the cold weather and what else could be the cause for it not starting?

 

[katanabandit1]

JTD No Go

My sisters JTD will not fire up. The garage have had it all week ad are at a total loss. When plugged into the diagnostics every thing says it should go. Plenty of fuel pressure etc. They changed the crank position sensor on the off chance it was that but still to no avail. The egr valve has been checked and is fine. Does anyone else have any idea's. I think it will be something simple as it did the same a week ago or so but then eventually it barked into life. At the moment it just give a puff that it is gonna start then instantly stops. It' s had a new battery as well. Any idea's???:bang::bang:

 

[Argonought]

Re: JTD No Go

Well, not an awful lot go on with just one post.

If this all the history you have - we aren't clairvoyant you know

 

[kris lee]

Re: JTD No Go

I had a similar sounding problem a while back, mine turned out to be the cam sensor

 

[katanabandit1]

Re: JTD No Go

Last week my sisters 1.9 jtd MW refused to start so she got the AA out to try to help. The technician said the fuel pump would be broke and seen as it was bank holiday there was no point in having the car recovered to a garage as it would just sit there all weekend.
Suspecting this to be rubbish as it seemed strange that the car hadn't had any problems the day before I went round to have a look.
Miracle upon miricale it fired up after a few turns of the key but ran like a pot dog at first. After it had cleared itself it had run fine for a week or so. We put it down to the diesel maybe freezing as it was extremely cold when it happened. Anyway the car ran fine for a week but its done it again and will not start again the weather is absolutely freezing. We had the car towed to our independant garage who have put it on their examiner and it was coming up with a couple of faults. 1 of them being crank position sensor! I have read many posts on this sensor and problems it can cause but none that I have read so far have said they were unable to get the car to start.
Basically what happens is you turn the car over and it barks as if it is going to start then just stops coming up with " engine fault" on display in the dash ( at which point you think No SH!T SHERLOCK)lol.
The garage has checked to see if fuel if getting through and at the correct pressure which it is. But they aren't sure that it is the crank sensor either as they have spoken to a FIAT Technician and he has told them that the diagnostic computer will come up with those faults anyway when they wont start but it doesn't meen that thats the fault. They have suggested to them that it could be a faulty imobiliser. They have still a couple of tests to do but they say but wont be able to do them till late monday as they are extremely busy at the moment. I would appreciate any idea's on what it could be. Many of the symtoms suggest it is the crank position sensor but none of the posts on here are quite the same.

We have changed the crank position sensor and that is't the problem. Egr valve isn't stuck. As I said before though the diagnostics machine says it should work. Just wondered if anyone had had a simalar experience and what the cure was.

 

[katanabandit1]

Re: JTD No Go

Could you expand on the cam sensor.

 

[katanabandit1]

Re: JTD No Go

oh yeh was it expensive to fix? Ta

 

[Argonought]

Re: JTD No Go

If you want to amend a recent post simply use EDIT - don't double post.

EDIT: and don't start new threads about the same problem (now merged) :bang:

If people take the time to try to help then they aren't likely to want to help twice
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't forget, a crank sensor fault can just as easily be a contact problem (on the socket) which means just changing the sensor wont always work.

You need to be checking codes all the time to get to the bottom of these types of problem.

 

[john55]

Re: JTD No Go

oh yeh was it expensive to fix? Ta

JTD's have 2 sensors,, one on the cam shaft and one on the crankshaft. Either can fail, causing the same symptoms - Not starting.
Take off the plastic cam cover on off side end of engine and you will see the sensor next to the cam pulley.

 

[katanabandit1]

Well sorry about double posting and all that but I hadn't had much response before. Also I aint that good when it comes to using the forums but it certainately wasn't aimed at peeing folk off and I didn't know you could "edit" previous posts etc.

Anyway the car is now in at FIAT for diagnosis. Hopefully they will sort it.

I will let you know what it was when we get it back then if someone else suffers the same problem they won't have the trouble we have had!

Thanks for the help anyway.

 

[kris lee]

Re: JTD No Go

oh yeh was it expensive to fix? Ta

I had the cambelt changed at the same time so mine was quite expensive!

 

[katanabandit1]

The Cambelt was done about 8/9 month ago so that shouldn't be a worry.

 

[kris lee]

The Cambelt was done about 8/9 month ago so that shouldn't be a worry.

I think it's a cambelt off job!!!

 

[katanabandit1]

DOH!

Anyway FIAT now have it but say they cant take a look it it til Wednesday at the earliest. A bit poor if you ask me, it sureley cant take that long to plug in a diagnostic machine that should tell em what the problem is.

 

[katanabandit1]

Well, FIAT have finally diagnosed the problem and think the ECU is busted. Not good. They quoted £713 to replace it with a refurbished one. It now gets a little dirty. After doing a little research on the net there are plenty of places in the uk that can refurb the ecu and sort it out for around £150 - £200. Only problem is that it can take up to 5 days to turn round. We told our FIAT garage this and they said, " its fine if you want to go down that route but we can't have your car taking any space at the dealership even if just parked outside waiting for spare parts to come not supplied by us. So yesterday me and a mate went and towed the car home and took the ECU off then sent it to these guys for repair via royal mail special delivery. It cost £213 for them to diagnose the ECU was faulty aswell. Hopefully we may get it back for the weekend.
No reprogramming or recoding will be necessary due to being the original on the car so should be just a case of plug it in and go.

But the bit that really sucks is FIAT then rings up after I had sent it off and got the car home and said we can basically get yours re-conditioned and fitted for £280:bang::bang::bang:!
If they had said that in the first place we would have gone with that rather than having to mess about towing the car home and take the its off ourselves.

They really do know how to shoot themselves in the foot. Not impressed at all.

 

[katanabandit1]

Well we get the ECU back tomorow! All sorted, apparently the seal had blown on the unit and let water in then blew a couple of chips on the board. Came to £180 +VAT.
It does make some sense though because the Bro in law filled the washer bottle the day before it sarted acting up and probably splashed it all over the place. An expensive lesson.