Technical Oil pump position?

[TG1964]

I have a 2004 Fiat Stilo 1.9 TDI Hatchback I got a spare engine for it now I need it as the timing belt went and what I need to know is where the oil pump is located as it needs to be moved over as the bad one gives too bad lubrication to the turbo which breaks! Otherwise, getting to the timing belt without having to take the engine out is pure hell because of the space! I'm new here and translating from Swedish so I really hope it can be understood and that I can get help from someone knowledgeable...

 

[Maxcaddy]

Unfortunately I can't help as I've never played with a Diesel version, although I can't imagine that doing the belt is any more tighter than the petrols, and in my case I had 5 cylinders to deal with. For Diesels Ralf S on here is probably your man.

 

[TG1964]

Unfortunately I can't help as I've never played with a Diesel version, although I can't imagine that doing the belt is any more tighter than the petrols, and in my case I had 5 cylinders to deal with. For Diesels Ralf S on here is probably your man.

Thanks anyway! About the belt was it the worst car I ever have tryed to change it on! The space was not existing so I believe that I have to take out the engine to get it done correctly because it went to hell with the latest change and now I have to change the engine then it crashed everything but it was the oil pump who had problem on the other motor and I really need to get it fixed before I change the motor I hate when it's no room to see and reach things in modern cars!
I remember old American cars were you could stand beside the motor and what a difference it is compared to new ones! I wich that they didn't chould take so much fuel because I chould rather have a car who was possibly to repair on the place than an impossible vehicle...

 

[Ralf S.]

Hi TG.

The oil pump is at the cam-belt end of the engine, at the bottom, behind the aux belt pulley.

The U shaped shroud that surrounds the crankshaft stub (once you have removed the aux belt pulley) is part of the oil pump, so once you're there you can follow it round to its edges and see how big it is. It is huge.. about the size of your foot... basically the whole width of the engine across the bottom, above the sump, is the oil pump body.

You'll need to remove the sump to get the pump off, as the oil pick up is attached to it and that's inside the sump.. and that is a joy in itself..

The cam-belt is a lot easier to replace if you support the engine and remove the engine mount... but agreed it's tight. The cam-belt covers are the only bits that are really tricky though.. once you have the two covers separated and removed, the rest of it is not toooo bad, although trying to see how the tensioner is set is always great fun. I usually stick my phone in there to be able to see where the pointer is.

I wouldn't remove the engine to change the cam-belt.. (you're either young or foolish... )

I only have the usual DIY-er facilities (so no hydraulic lift etc.) so I wouldn't be able to get the engine out from underneath.. On my drive, I'd first drop the gearbox out of the bottom.. and then lift the engine itself out of the top. You will need to remove the wheel arch liners and the bumper (makes a lot of space) ... the subframe just about can stay but the brake caliper, hub and driveshaft will have to be moved (the driveshaft inner CV cup comes out)... The battery, the tray, (starter motor can just be disconnected) and all the airbox and intake pipework needs to come out, as will the gearbox mounts (top and bottom). This will take you a whole day and this is just to get the gearbox out.

The engine itself has lots of wiring and pipes attached to it.. relatively simple... but the bonnet needs to come off and then the exhaust. The alternator is "interesting" to access the cable... you already knew it would be..

You need a hoist to fish it out of the engine bay, so that is the one bit of pro' kit that I would recommend, as well as axle stands and about 3 jacks (you'll learn why ).

It really is a mission.. but if you want to have a go then a hoist or better still a hydraulic lift if you can borrow one, will lessen the pain considerably.. since the engine and box could then be removed without being split, from underneath.

If it was "DIY" me, I'd leave the motor in place. Trust me...


Ralf S.

 

[TG1964]

Hi TG.

The oil pump is at the cam-belt end of the engine, at the bottom, behind the aux belt pulley.

The U shaped shroud that surrounds the crankshaft stub (once you have removed the aux belt pulley) is part of the oil pump, so once you're there you can follow it round to its edges and see how big it is. It is huge.. about the size of your foot... basically the whole width of the engine across the bottom, above the sump, is the oil pump body.

You'll need to remove the sump to get the pump off, as the oil pick up is attached to it and that's inside the sump.. and that is a joy in itself..

The cam-belt is a lot easier to replace if you support the engine and remove the engine mount... but agreed it's tight. The cam-belt covers are the only bits that are really tricky though.. once you have the two covers separated and removed, the rest of it is not toooo bad, although trying to see how the tensioner is set is always great fun. I usually stick my phone in there to be able to see where the pointer is.

I wouldn't remove the engine to change the cam-belt.. (you're either young or foolish... )

I only have the usual DIY-er facilities (so no hydraulic lift etc.) so I wouldn't be able to get the engine out from underneath.. On my drive, I'd first drop the gearbox out of the bottom.. and then lift the engine itself out of the top. You will need to remove the wheel arch liners and the bumper (makes a lot of space) ... the subframe just about can stay but the brake caliper, hub and driveshaft will have to be moved (the driveshaft inner CV cup comes out)... The battery, the tray, (starter motor can just be disconnected) and all the airbox and intake pipework needs to come out, as will the gearbox mounts (top and bottom). This will take you a whole day and this is just to get the gearbox out.

The engine itself has lots of wiring and pipes attached to it.. relatively simple... but the bonnet needs to come off and then the exhaust. The alternator is "interesting" to access the cable... you already knew it would be..

You need a hoist to fish it out of the engine bay, so that is the one bit of pro' kit that I would recommend, as well as axle stands and about 3 jacks (you'll learn why ).

It really is a mission.. but if you want to have a go then a hoist or better still a hydraulic lift if you can borrow one, will lessen the pain considerably.. since the engine and box could then be removed without being split, from underneath.

If it was "DIY" me, I'd leave the motor in place. Trust me...


Ralf S.

Thank you for your informative response! One thing I am not young but old and stupid isn't any better and I got right about removing the hole engine to change the belt according to my previous experience when the tightener didn't was in the right place and destroyed the motor in a very high speed so the damage was total unfortunate...
Is it a good idea to try to get the reservengine cleaned out from the old oil if it is way the oil pressure to the turbo is to low and destroying the turbo directly? And what is the best way to get everything clean whiteout taking it apart of course!? It sounds like it going to take me a long time before I going to get the time for that project when I got a lot of other cars to work with before I can start with the personal car...

 

[Ralf S.]

If you're going to take the old engine out, then it might save you a lot of time to clean up the new engine and fit new parts onto that one instead of repairing the original engine.

The new engine probably only needs a new cam-belt and water pump to be ready to fit, and that will be easy to do while it's out of the car.

I wouldn't worry about cleaning it out inside, before fitting it.. once it's installed, just put some cheap oil in it (0W30) plus some engine flushing agent .. or use flushing oil... start the engine and let it fast idle for 20 minutes, leave it overnight, do the same thing again and then drain the oil. You'll be amazed what comes out of the diesel sump..

Let it all drip out, then replace the oil filter and re-fill with clean oil. It'll be cool.

When the old engine is out, compare the other parts like the alternator, if the new engine has everything attached. Swap over the part that looks in best condition. Alternator is tricky to replace in the car because one of the bolts is very inaccessible when the exhaust and driveshaft are fitted... so check it while the engine is out.

Also check the clutch (100,000 miles/160,000kms seems to be the release bearing life, even though the clutch plates last longer) and the Dual-Mass flywheel (180,000 miles/290,000kms)..... and look at the driveshaft oil seals, since these are difficult to fit on the car and just cost a few Euro's .. so change them if they look like they're leaking. Buy 4 because they can deform easily on fitting...

The airbox is a work of art... but a complete PITA to seal properly. The rubber neoprene connector on top of the metal pipe under the turbo can get loose and leak, which will make you smoke... so while you have all the pipes off, just de-grease all the internals, check the condition and fit some new clamps.

100,000 miles/160,000kms seems to be the life of the Turbo boost actuator valve. It lives under the headlamp with the airbox in front of it... so if yours is likely to die soon, change it now.. and check all the vacuum tube is good and not leaking. When the valve stops sucking you get poor boost and the engine smokes a lot. My Turbo boost actuator is still the original but check yours moves easily when the valve sucks on the pipe. They're not too expensive and it's easy to replace it with the engine out.

While the engine is out, also remove the pipe to the EGR valve (under the thermostat)... it will be full of carbon for sure... so give it a good clean. The EGR can also use a clean. I blanked mine off to keep it clean. The car makes more NOx pollution but goes slightly better and uses less diesel (less CO2, so me and the planet are cool.. ) EGR is okay to change when it's in the car... but the pipe is going to have rusty bolts... so best tackled off the car.

Oh... don't look inside the inlet manifold.... butif it was me and the engine is all in bits, I'd take it off and clean it out. It looks like oily syrup in there and it can eventually pollute the EGR and the MAP sensor (the black plastic tab thing on top of the manifold).

If you're in Finland, you'll have long days soon... but in case you don't make it, sir.... good luck!




Ralf S.

 

[TG1964]

If you're going to take the old engine out, then it might save you a lot of time to clean up the new engine and fit new parts onto that one instead of repairing the original engine.

The new engine probably only needs a new cam-belt and water pump to be ready to fit, and that will be easy to do while it's out of the car.

I wouldn't worry about cleaning it out inside, before fitting it.. once it's installed, just put some cheap oil in it (0W30) plus some engine flushing agent .. or use flushing oil... start the engine and let it fast idle for 20 minutes, leave it overnight, do the same thing again and then drain the oil. You'll be amazed what comes out of the diesel sump..

Let it all drip out, then replace the oil filter and re-fill with clean oil. It'll be cool.

When the old engine is out, compare the other parts like the alternator, if the new engine has everything attached. Swap over the part that looks in best condition. Alternator is tricky to replace in the car because one of the bolts is very inaccessible when the exhaust and driveshaft are fitted... so check it while the engine is out.

Also check the clutch (100,000 miles/160,000kms seems to be the release bearing life, even though the clutch plates last longer) and the Dual-Mass flywheel (180,000 miles/290,000kms)..... and look at the driveshaft oil seals, since these are difficult to fit on the car and just cost a few Euro's .. so change them if they look like they're leaking. Buy 4 because they can deform easily on fitting...

The airbox is a work of art... but a complete PITA to seal properly. The rubber neoprene connector on top of the metal pipe under the turbo can get loose and leak, which will make you smoke... so while you have all the pipes off, just de-grease all the internals, check the condition and fit some new clamps.

100,000 miles/160,000kms seems to be the life of the Turbo boost actuator valve. It lives under the headlamp with the airbox in front of it... so if yours is likely to die soon, change it now.. and check all the vacuum tube is good and not leaking. When the valve stops sucking you get poor boost and the engine smokes a lot. My Turbo boost actuator is still the original but check yours moves easily when the valve sucks on the pipe. They're not too expensive and it's easy to replace it with the engine out.

While the engine is out, also remove the pipe to the EGR valve (under the thermostat)... it will be full of carbon for sure... so give it a good clean. The EGR can also use a clean. I blanked mine off to keep it clean. The car makes more NOx pollution but goes slightly better and uses less diesel (less CO2, so me and the planet are cool.. ) EGR is okay to change when it's in the car... but the pipe is going to have rusty bolts... so best tackled off the car.

Oh... don't look inside the inlet manifold.... butif it was me and the engine is all in bits, I'd take it off and clean it out. It looks like oily syrup in there and it can eventually pollute the EGR and the MAP sensor (the black plastic tab thing on top of the manifold).

If you're in Finland, you'll have long days soon... but in case you don't make it, sir.... good luck!




Ralf S.

I want to thank you very much for all your help! It has been pure hell for me with this car and when I messed with it with the timing belt I was mean as hell for a long time! It's a shame you can't blame anyone other than possibly Fiat who have made things almost impossible to access! To clarify, it's the old engine that I'm going to replace the cut one for and why it was replaced was because it ate the turbo and that's exactly why I'm wondering about the benefit of cleaning the ducts but it can be harmful to drive around cleaning clean but where could it be most likely to prevent flow to the turbo when the oil pressure was ok? I'll probably explode if there's something I'm missing such as the turbo cutting again... It will be a project for next year only because I have some Ford Transits that I have to get rid of first and there's the problem that some Romanians have stole the engine controllers which were of higher power than normal and finding such at a profitable price is going to be a nightmare I'm afraid... But as you may know Finland has perhaps the highest prices for vehicles in Europe and especially vans pays quite well and one of them is an 8+1 person taxi that has everything possible exclusively in it, including cruise control which I, as a notorious speeder, really need if I want to keep my driver's license! The last time I had incredible luck with the police who are actually obliged to take the driver's license straight away when someone like me was driving over half the speed limit but the oncoming police had a purely happy face after being forced to turn around and keep the gas at the bottom quite a long time before they caught up because I had continued at the same speed because they had already measured me, but we sat and talked to each other in good agreement for almost an hour and we had exactly the same opinion that the speed on the straight roads that we have here should be doubled as the distances are so long in addition - they laughed when I first had to think about whether it was time-barred before I could tell them that it shouldn't really take more than 12 minutes to the city which is 50 Km away but then I drove over 230 almost the whole way and I have been saved from moose thanks to illegally strong auxiliary lights and such high speeds that they have not had time to catch up in front of me even though they are running 70 Km/h! When the EU limited how bright lights you can have, Sweden refused to approve it, citing the moose danger, wisely enough, but Finland, I am forced to use illegal lights as I live in the most moose-infested place in all of Finland and my life is worth a small fine! I haven't seen led lights with only spot lights yet and that's what I need because otherwise you get dazzled by your own high beam when you have to dazzle to low beam and that's a shame because my old Hella rally 3000 should still be the best when they light 1200 meters each and I have set them to start only when the normal lighting fades which is perfect on these sparsely traveled roads! As a matter of principle, I usually turn off the blinds first to put them back on and let the oncoming person decide when it is appropriate to switch to low beams and I do not accept only having low beams on when there is road lighting as the light reflects much better straight ahead than in a 90 degrees angle obviously enough and that principle has actually saved several lives! As I said, I am very grateful to you and wish you all the luck and success!