F1 going green, and using 1.6 engines

[Percyhahn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9255871.stm

Really? is 20 cars going around a track so detremental to our environment? surely the f2 and f3 cars will be quicker than these, and perhaps in effect replace it?

i was doing about global warming recently in a lecture, and i cant find it anywhere, but it shows earths temperatures over the last 300,000 years, and it proves (amongst lots of other proof) global warming is a sham, and that it is the earths natural cycle of heating up, cooling down and heating up again.

 

[maddogmorg]

80s F1 cars used to be 1.5 turbos didn't they. wonder if BMW have a supply of prepared blocks ready to use?

 

[Percyhahn]

did they? tbh they weren't much slower than todays f1 cars i don't think. surely though, does that mean, say bmw do a 1.6 engine in their f1 car, surely whatever tuning is done to the engine, must be able to be replicated on their road car engine? they wouldnt be as quick to due weight and aerodynamics, but they would be amazingly quick.

 

[sludgeguts]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9255871.stm

Really? is 20 cars going around a track so detremental to our environment? surely the f2 and f3 cars will be quicker than these, and perhaps in effect replace it?

i was doing about global warming recently in a lecture, and i cant find it anywhere, but it shows earths temperatures over the last 300,000 years, and it proves (amongst lots of other proof) global warming is a sham, and that it is the earths natural cycle of heating up, cooling down and heating up again.

They have temperature records going back that far then?
So our current spell is nothing to do with the billions of people on the planet all farting or the billions of cows, sheep etc all farting - and nothing whatsoever to do with the pollution from the steam engine/coal fire decades and nothing to do with the billions of engines belching out tonnes of toxic fumes every day?

Whilst I agree that the planet will go through cycles of cooling and heating, I do feel that the current period is more of an interruption to the natural cycle caused by the billions of tonnes of additional gaseous outpouring over and above what the planet would have had naturally.

 

[Percyhahn]

They have temperature records going back that far then?
So our current spell is nothing to do with the billions of people on the planet all farting or the billions of cows, sheep etc all farting - and nothing whatsoever to do with the pollution from the steam engine/coal fire decades and nothing to do with the billions of engines belching out tonnes of toxic fumes every day?

Whilst I agree that the planet will go through cycles of cooling and heating, I do feel that the current period is more of an interruption to the natural cycle caused by the billions of tonnes of additional gaseous outpouring over and above what the planet would have had naturally.

i suppose they do it by looking at rock layers etc. it dnidnt say how they recorded it. yes, but apparantly according to the presentation, rotting vegetation and cows farting and animal waste still pollutes more than what we do. i do agree though that we do pollute to much, but i dont think that its quite as bad as some of the horror stories we are told. I might have worded it wrong, when i meant scam, i meant another excuse to tax us and that.

 

[Venters]

There were times in the 80s where cars were generating almost 1000 bhp per litre. Way more than is generated now. Also maybe you should read some scientific journals on the science of climate change. Reading the work of the experts as opposed to the numbskulls makes for some eye opening stuff!

 

[sludgeguts]

There were times in the 80s where cars were generating almost 1000 bhp per litre. Way more than is generated now.

And yet on these very forums we have people who want to rip bits off their cars or block off something or other because they can't see the need for them or they feel these bits are somehow detrimental to the top speed etc etc.

With the general hoo-ha about fuel supplies running out in the not too distant, I am really surprised to see racing events are managing to survive.
What would be impressive would be if we could watch these events and see cars running on alternative power - racing teams should spend their millions developing fast cars on alternate fuels with a knock-on effect for the home user rather than finding ways to squeeze an extra mile out of a litre of petrol/diesel.
While the new shell stuff (extra litre per tank) is a nice thought, I'd rather see ways of converting existing tech and re-educating the masses to think 'greener'

 

[Rigby]

This was announced quite some time ago. When the old F1 cars were turbo charged didnt they ban them because they were too quick? Trying to make any kind of motorsport 'green' is pointless, it won't change 'global warming' at all because its a term someone used once when its all just bull**** generated by the media and people who dont know what they are talking about.

 

[pooroldcodger]

did they? tbh they weren't much slower than todays f1 cars i don't think. surely though, does that mean, say bmw do a 1.6 engine in their f1 car, surely whatever tuning is done to the engine, must be able to be replicated on their road car engine? they wouldnt be as quick to due weight and aerodynamics, but they would be amazingly quick.

F1 used to have 1.5 litre engines in the 60's, before the 3 litre Cosworth V8 became king. And yes back in the 80's BMW's F1 engine was based on the block from the 4 cylinder engine in the 2002. They produced massive power when they cranked the turbos up. However as is always the way, as turbos were dropped in favour of naturally aspirated, the teams clawed back the lap times by improvements to aero, brakes (especially so), weight of components (allowing the use of ballast to achieve near perfect weight distribution). Also the tyre manufacturers played their part in improving the laptimes. In addition, although a car has huge power output, it needs to be delivered in a useful way if it is to be any good for racing, especially on slippery tracks.
These new engines will be plenty fast enough, but they won't sound as nice. Also it is partly political and partly marketing lead. All manufacturers are producing smaller engines nowadays, but predictably Ferrari and Mercedes are not happy at having to invest many tens of millions in a new engine, having achieved such power and reliability with the current ones.

 

[volxstu]

They have temperature records going back that far then?

Yep the clever dicks are drilling the glaciers and working out the density of the ice to work out temperatures that span millennia.

 

[Shadeyman]

So they plan to get 750bhp from 1.6.

"Care has been taken to ensure the performance of cars will not be affected and total power outputs will remain at current levels - approximately 750bhp"

Imagine that in your Stilo.

 

[Dominion]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9255871.stm

Really? is 20 cars going around a track so detremental to our environment? surely the f2 and f3 cars will be quicker than these, and perhaps in effect replace it?

i was doing about global warming recently in a lecture, and i cant find it anywhere, but it shows earths temperatures over the last 300,000 years, and it proves (amongst lots of other proof) global warming is a sham, and that it is the earths natural cycle of heating up, cooling down and heating up again.

The big thing with the global warming debate is that nothing has been proven. The various natural controls of the Earth's climate are so complex and intertwined it is difficult to say what causes hot/cold periods (for example Milankovitch cycles and Solar minima and maxima). However, most climate scientists now seem to be agreeing that anthropogenic activity since the industrial revolution has massively amplified the effects of natural controls.
But still - nothing actually proven.

Stu's right about measuring past climates by sampling ice cores. There are other methods too, like studying foraminifera in ocean sediments.

I just read this post back and realised just how boring I am

 

[johnson550]

I wonder if the dinasaurs farted themselves into extinction.

 

[Shadeyman]

I wonder if the dinasaurs farted themselves into extinction.

My dog probabely will.

 

[Percyhahn]

The big thing with the global warming debate is that nothing has been proven. The various natural controls of the Earth's climate are so complex and intertwined it is difficult to say what causes hot/cold periods (for example Milankovitch cycles and Solar minima and maxima). However, most climate scientists now seem to be agreeing that anthropogenic activity since the industrial revolution has massively amplified the effects of natural controls.
But still - nothing actually proven.

Stu's right about measuring past climates by sampling ice cores. There are other methods too, like studying foraminifera in ocean sediments.

I just read this post back and realised just how boring I am

i couldnt even begin to argue against that post, eve if i wanted to lol.
just.. WOW. are you in this field of work at all?

 

[The Beard]

I might be wrong, but haven't there been steps taken recently to cut the cost of F1? If so, having gone from the Coventry Climax to the 3 litre formula to 4 cylinder turbos to the present formula.....why are they expecting teams to change the entire architecture of their engines with all the attendant costs?

BRM with their V12s, Cosworth with the V8s and Ferrari with the flat 12s all must have lasted between 10 and 20 years with steady development as they went. I would have thought the FIA would have been better off insisting that teams should keep the same engine structures and just improve on what they've already got.

 

[pooroldcodger]

I might be wrong, but haven't there been steps taken recently to cut the cost of F1? If so, having gone from the Coventry Climax to the 3 litre formula to 4 cylinder turbos to the present formula.....why are they expecting teams to change the entire architecture of their engines with all the attendant costs?

BRM with their V12s, Cosworth with the V8s and Ferrari with the flat 12s all must have lasted between 10 and 20 years with steady development as they went. I would have thought the FIA would have been better off insisting that teams should keep the same engine structures and just improve on what they've already got.

As always Beard you have hit 'nail on t' ead.
Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Cosworth have spent hundreds of millions developing these engines, making them last longer and (relatively speaking) more economical. This is one of those situations where the FIA think they know best what is the right thing to do politically.
The drive to cut costs was supposed to allow the entrance of several smaller teams, such as Virgin, Hispania and Lotus, on the basis of spending around £30m per year. As all of these teams have customer engines bought from Cosworth, they presumably will still be able to buy a "budget" power plant, from somebody, but as for the engine builders mentioned above, this must be a disaster.
I don't follow rallying as closely, but I think they are also going for 1.6 turbos next year, but I could be wrong.