Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[306maxi]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I don't want to gloat or anything (no really, I don't)

But this issue which is supposedly caused by euro VI compliance and would therefore affect every 1.2 engined 500 hasn't had a post in over 2 weeks.

Don't get me wrong this is a big issue but I think some people really need to consider that this is a component or assembly issue because if it was every 1.2 being delivered then we'd be hearing about it.

I know I've made people unhappy by disagreeing with the commonly held position, but there's a reason why.

 

[MrDerv]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Either that, or people think that's how 500's come off the factory line and don't complain about it.

It's what i first thought til we had a 500 pop edition and it felt smoother on throttle response than the wife's Lounge. ECU update has fixed it

 

[306maxi]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Either that, or people think that's how 500's come off the factory line and don't complain about it.

It's what i first thought til we had a 500 pop edition and it felt smoother on throttle response than the wife's Lounge. ECU update has fixed it

No car should ever be so bad that it lets you down whilst pulling out into traffic though and I suspect most people would recognise that as a fault.

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

We have just taken delivery of new 500 S here in Palma de Mallorca.
One of the first things I noticed was the lack of throttle response when pulling away in first gear and then a sudden surge in revs as soon as the clutch was fully lifted.
Having read previous posts suggesting a different driving style i.e. lifting the clutch and allowing the car to crawl away before applying the accelerator I have tried this and feel I could get accustomed to it without any problem. However there is a serious issue on steep hill climbs. I found a very steep hill that I have climbed from standstill in various other cars without any problem and it is just impossible to get the 500 up there. I tried releasing the clutch slowly without gas but it stalls as the hill is too steep. I then tried giving some gas and it just bogs down with zero throttle response. The only way was to roll back and take a run at it with some momentum.
I bought this car for my wife who has only recently passed her test and I am really concerned that she is going to run into trouble every time she needs to make a hill start. What to do?

 

[jrkitching]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

We have just taken delivery of new 500 S here in Palma de Mallorca.

Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Sorry to hear you're having problems with your new 500.

In the first instance, I'd suggest you explain the situation to the dealer you bought it from and see what they have to say. Please keep us informed as to the outcome, as this is an ongoing issue for some, but not all, folks who've recently bought a new 1.2 500 or Panda.

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Thanks for the welcome. I will get back to the dealer on monday and see what they say.

Meanwhile has anybody with a 2014 1.2 manual actually tried to do a very steep hill start?

 

[Fischini]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Thanks for the welcome. I will get back to the dealer on monday and see what they say.

Meanwhile has anybody with a 2014 1.2 manual actually tried to do a very steep hill start?

I have had my 1.4 500s for a few weeks. It's a 6 speed manual. I don't have any real problems with throttle response but do find it very sensitive to coming off and on the gas. Makes for quite a jerky ride.

Managing to get smoother but takes a bit of getting used too.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Re: 500 Lounge and hills!

In our 2014 1.2 I find it impossible to do a hill start on a steep slope. Back to the dealer on monday so will keep you posted.

So what happens then

 

[Palma500s]

Re: 500 Lounge and hills!

So what happens then

From a standing start on a steep hill: Handbrake on, in 1st, clutch down, revving engine then starting to slip the clutch and release the handbrake the revs drop off automatically regardless of me pushing the accelerator and the engine just bogs down and stalls unless I press the clutch again.
I have tried all manner of combinations and there is no way to get the car to pull away. So I have to roll back and take a run at the hill to get up to the top!

I have been driving all sorts of vehicles old and new for 30 years and this is the first time I have had to admit defeat on a hill start.

 

[Stu DemonD]

Re: 500 Lounge and hills!

Are you definitely in 1st and not 3rd gear?

 

[ahmett]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

is this the euro 6 1.2 that many people have been having problems with?

 

[jrkitching]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

is this the euro 6 1.2 that many people have been having problems with?

Yes. I've slightly changed the thread title to make it clearer.

We are still extremely short on hard facts about what exactly is physically different with these engines & their control systems.

The issue is also affecting the latest 1.2 Pandas and there are threads running in that section also.

There are also other folks reporting that they've driven recently built 500's without noticing anything wrong, but there are too many independent posters reporting problems with driveability to dismiss this as trivial. One person has already successfully rejected a 1.2 500 after being told by a dealer that there wasn't anything they could do; another person has reported significant improvement after their dealer had fiddled with it (but wasn't clear about what exactly was done).

It's plain confusing .

If anyone has a car with this issue, and isn't too far from Bournemouth, I'd appreciate it if they could bring it over for an hour or so that I can compare with my Euro5. Please PM me if you can help.

 

[Colinsar]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Just to add my 2 penny worth I have a new 64 reg ct 1.2 and it is fine tried it today after reading thread its got that launch control thing (letting clutch out with no exelrator presure and revs rise automatically ) but tried all types of pull always and it worked what ether way .its definitely the most fun to drive car I've ever owned! Salvo (his name) is my lovely minuture blue Ferrari .im a bit bias as I realy love this car cheers colin

 

[Palma500s]

Re: 500 Lounge and hills!

Are you definitely in 1st and not 3rd gear?

Thanks for your concern Stu but I can assure you that I am without doubt engaging 1st gear.
Although considering the manner in which the car behaves you could be forgiven for thinking that it was in 3rd or even 5th. It is as if lifting the clutch eliminates any input from the accelerator.
I would ask anyone with a late 2013 or 2014 1.2 manual to try a standing hill start on a steep incline and let us know how they get on.

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Yes. I've slightly changed the thread title to make it clearer.

We are still extremely short on hard facts about what exactly is physically different with these engines & their control systems.

The issue is also affecting the latest 1.2 Pandas and there are threads running in that section also.

There are also other folks reporting that they've driven recently built 500's without noticing anything wrong, but there are too many independent posters reporting problems with driveability to dismiss this as trivial. One person has already successfully rejected a 1.2 500 after being told by a dealer that there wasn't anything they could do; another person has reported significant improvement after their dealer had fiddled with it (but wasn't clear about what exactly was done).

It's plain confusing .

If anyone has a car with this issue, and isn't too far from Bournemouth, I'd appreciate it if they could bring it over for an hour or so that I can compare with my Euro5. Please PM me if you can help.

I am new to this forum and very pleased to have found it. As I have this problem with our new 500 I have obviously been searching all related posts and have found many people share the same problem. However I have yet to see a post from an owner of a 2013 or 2014 1.2 manual who has categorically stated that their car does not suffer from this same problem. Therefore I think it would really help if any owners of these models could confirm that they haven't experienced any issue. The best way to test it is by a steep standing hill start.

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Just to add my 2 penny worth I have a new 64 reg ct 1.2 and it is fine tried it today after reading thread its got that launch control thing (letting clutch out with no exelrator presure and revs rise automatically ) but tried all types of pull always and it worked what ether way .its definitely the most fun to drive car I've ever owned! Salvo (his name) is my lovely minuture blue Ferrari .im a bit bias as I realy love this car cheers colin

Thanks for your comments Colin. I am in Spain so not up to date with the UK reg system. Is 64 for 2014?
I have adapted my usual procedure for pulling away on a level (ish) road and don't have any issue with that. In fact I think it can be considered a positive to be able to pull away slowly without needing the accelerator. Similar to driving an automatic. However the problem for me is evident on hill starts. The steeper the hill the worse the problem. Have you tried a standing start on a steep incline?

 

[FoXy8]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hi,


Although ths might be some sort of a sideline to all 500 owner with slow throttle response I might tell you this:


On the 500 marked you will find several unit designed to reduce 500 initial lag, This unit is connected to your stock pedal assembly and allows you to choose between settings for different driving styles.

It advances your throttle’s timing to give you a more direct response, and this throttle control signal amplifier is installed in minutes without any tools. It is not a permanent modification and can be returned to stock just as easily. The devise has been designed to make your 500 more responsive.


Personaly I got this unit instaaed on my own TwinAir and I can inform you that it makes a significant difference in the way the 500 responds.

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hi,


Although ths might be some sort of a sideline to all 500 owner with slow throttle response I might tell you this:


On the 500 marked you will find several unit designed to reduce 500 initial lag, This unit is connected to your stock pedal assembly and allows you to choose between settings for different driving styles.

It advances your throttle’s timing to give you a more direct response, and this throttle control signal amplifier is installed in minutes without any tools. It is not a permanent modification and can be returned to stock just as easily. The devise has been designed to make your 500 more responsive.


Personaly I got this unit instaaed on my own TwinAir and I can inform you that it makes a significant difference in the way the 500 responds.

Thanks FoXy8. Is this an aftermarket add on from FIAT or another manufacturer? Do you have any more details or web links to any information on this?

 

[Colinsar]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hi Palma yes my car is only two weeks old and still on his second tank of petrol just 400 miles I will find a steep hill tomorrow and give it a go cheers colin

 

[Palma500s]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hi Palma yes my car is only two weeks old and still on his second tank of petrol just 400 miles I will find a steep hill tomorrow and give it a go cheers colin

Much appreciated Colin