I wouldn't count on video evidence bothering them
https://www.fiatforum.com/members-m...vo-dynamic-multijet-dualogic-3.html?p=3553231
Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
I wouldn't count on video evidence bothering them
https://www.fiatforum.com/members-m...vo-dynamic-multijet-dualogic-3.html?p=3553231
I have contacted Fiat Finance regarding rejection and they are investigating.I am not giving up and exploring all options.My next doors rejected a Vauxhall after 2 power steering pumps in 12 months.If this costs FIAT a few million to sort out,its peanuts to a large company.
Sorry that is not 100% correct, it can be "fit for purpose" on various levels, it doesn't have to total.
For example a 4x4 which only works in 2 wheel drive would be acceptable on the road, but when you ventured off road and the 4 wheel drive system failed to engage then it would be not fit for purpose, where the purpose is having a 4 wheel drive for virtue of additional traction.
As long as you document the issue with the dealer/Fiat and give them the opportunity to repair it (and give them a deadline), you can still use it in the meantime and have the option to reject if they can't ultimately provide a solution. If they say continued use is either dangerous or will cause damage then of course that is a different story.
Latest update from me: I took my car back to the dealership this evening following ZERO paperwork proving diagnostics results/being passed back to Fiat. I handed my keys over to the receptionist and I said 'My registration number is x. Here are the keys. Until such times as you have fixed my car, I am now rejecting it.' And I then walked out to a very gobsmacked reception team.
I am going to be contacting the finance company in the morning advising them what I have done. Maybe now the dealership will take me seriously about their responsibility to me as their customer instead of fobbing me off to Fiat every time.
I also took the opportunity this afternoon to test drive a Ford KA with the same 1.2 engine. I took it to the same hill and performed the same manoeuvres as I did in the 500. I had NO issues whatsoever in the Ford. I know this fault is only affecting certain cars, but it was certainly interesting to discover that this engine did not struggle - the dealership did question initially why Watchdog hadn't looked at this and the Fiat Panda's 1.2 engines as they were all the same.
So. A defining moment in this sorry tale. It's now officially the dealership's problem now. I will update with any follow-ups that I get from them.
I am going to be contacting the finance company in the morning advising them what I have done. Maybe now the dealership will take me seriously about their responsibility to me as their customer instead of fobbing me off to Fiat every time.
I also took the opportunity this afternoon to test drive a Ford KA with the same 1.2 engine. I took it to the same hill and performed the same manoeuvres as I did in the 500. I had NO issues whatsoever in the Ford. I know this fault is only affecting certain cars, but it was certainly interesting to discover that this engine did not struggle - the dealership did question initially why Watchdog hadn't looked at this and the Fiat Panda's 1.2 engines as they were all the same.
So. A defining moment in this sorry tale. It's now officially the dealership's problem now. I will update with any follow-ups that I get from them.
WOW.
Well done!
Fingers are crossed for you.
Good luck,
Mick.
Well done!
Fingers are crossed for you.
Good luck,
Mick.
Thanks - but really; what else can people do?
I strongly suggest now that every other customer that is in the same boat as me does the same thing; reject your vehicle and put the ownership of this situation firmly back with the dealers. We are THEIR customers, not Fiat's and they HAVE to sort it out.
I also phoned Fiat, too, and made sure that they were advised of my actions, and also of the mileage on my car when I left it. I will update tomorrow as to what the finance company says.
But it's not my worry any more.
I strongly suggest now that every other customer that is in the same boat as me does the same thing; reject your vehicle and put the ownership of this situation firmly back with the dealers. We are THEIR customers, not Fiat's and they HAVE to sort it out.
I also phoned Fiat, too, and made sure that they were advised of my actions, and also of the mileage on my car when I left it. I will update tomorrow as to what the finance company says.
But it's not my worry any more.
It's still very much an issue in the Panda section of this forum.
A brave choice - but I applaud what you have done.
Just to reiterate what I posted earlier; keep making any payments due under the finance agreement until you have written authorisation to do otherwise, or you risk having your credit file seriously damaged. Making a stand against Fiat isn't worth that.
I await further reports as this progresses, and wish you the very best of luck.
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Yes indeed thank you. I will be updating accordingly and I stand by my actions and strongly urge others to follow suit. The more people do it the more the dealers are going to sit up and take note.
I would just add that I believe under the Consumer Credit Act that if you purchase any goods over £100 on credit and they are faulty, you should be entitled to a refund of any payment(s) made should you eventually decide to reject it. I do need to look into this more closely and my apologies if this is incorrect; as you can appreciate, I have been fairly 'active' in playing the 'game' that Fiat have asked and been waiting for the dealership to show due concern, which they have not (hence my actions this evening).
I would just add that I believe under the Consumer Credit Act that if you purchase any goods over £100 on credit and they are faulty, you should be entitled to a refund of any payment(s) made should you eventually decide to reject it. I do need to look into this more closely and my apologies if this is incorrect; as you can appreciate, I have been fairly 'active' in playing the 'game' that Fiat have asked and been waiting for the dealership to show due concern, which they have not (hence my actions this evening).
What the dealership did to my car (update SN101011) really seems tohave helped. I live in a very hilly area, but I genuinelyhaven’t had any issues since. Equallymine was a positive experience with the dealership – they wanted to help.
I am pleased that you are happy with your car now. However you have to ask if this update is the solution then why haven't Fiat suggested it to Watchdog or any other owners?
Fiat might be trying it out on a small number of cars before rolling it out to tens of thousands
Hi all,
First time posting, just thought I should share my 1.2 experience.
Myself and my wife have been complaining since getting the car (6 months ago now) to our dealer and had the same response as others, "nothing wrong with the car, perfectly safe, you need to adjust your driving style".
Finally today I got the Master technician to admit he knew all about this problem and that my car was "not right" and got the service manager to drive the car, after which he agreed it was faulty.
I now have a case opened with Fiat UK and they are sending an engineer to examine the car for two days next week.
The Master technician asked me to bring my car back later today as Fiat UK had asked for reports from my car's ECU and ABS computers, he said he had never been asked for that before.
It has taken a lot of complaining to get any action from either the dealer or Fiat UK and I for one am glad the issue has been given a high profile by Watchdog and the ex Stig!
I'll update when I know more.
First time posting, just thought I should share my 1.2 experience.
Myself and my wife have been complaining since getting the car (6 months ago now) to our dealer and had the same response as others, "nothing wrong with the car, perfectly safe, you need to adjust your driving style".
Finally today I got the Master technician to admit he knew all about this problem and that my car was "not right" and got the service manager to drive the car, after which he agreed it was faulty.
I now have a case opened with Fiat UK and they are sending an engineer to examine the car for two days next week.
The Master technician asked me to bring my car back later today as Fiat UK had asked for reports from my car's ECU and ABS computers, he said he had never been asked for that before.
It has taken a lot of complaining to get any action from either the dealer or Fiat UK and I for one am glad the issue has been given a high profile by Watchdog and the ex Stig!
I'll update when I know more.
Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.
Thank you for a most useful and helpful first post.
The first hard evidence from the field that Fiat are finally starting to give this issue the attention it deserves.
I wish you every success in getting a speedy resolution to what is now blindingly obviously a serious problem for far too many new 1.2 owners.
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ahmett
Prominent member
JrKitching why didnt you appear on watchdog as an expert? = )
Practically undriveable haha.
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Interesting that they want both the ECU and ABS controller data.
Still, as I originally said, this points towards it being (suspected of being) a soft/firm ware problem, ot, fixable in software.
I still suspect that we'll never truly get to the bottom of what is causing this issue- FIAT will issue a software update that cures it and that will be that.
Just to give a quick update:
I've been driving with the clutch position sensor disconnected since i tried it a few days ago. I accidentally filled with super unleaded again.
Now i previously mentioned the difference between connected and disconnected was negligible, but with super in the tank, you DO notice the difference! Massively!
Can someone please try it on theirs!? If Fiat are wanting engine and abs ecu data, i wonder if this is linked?
I've been driving with the clutch position sensor disconnected since i tried it a few days ago. I accidentally filled with super unleaded again.
Now i previously mentioned the difference between connected and disconnected was negligible, but with super in the tank, you DO notice the difference! Massively!
Can someone please try it on theirs!? If Fiat are wanting engine and abs ecu data, i wonder if this is linked?
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Hi Brickfoot,
Have you not had any warning lights or alarms while driving with the sensor disconnected?
Update from me. I have nothing to update. Which demonstrates EXACTLY why I left the car with the dealership and put the onus squarely with them; because they don't seem to care.
They haven't called; they haven't e-mailed. The only thing they have done is nothing. Oh, except stare at me as I walked out.
The finance company were advised today that I have rejected the car. They wanted to know if I was to continue with my payments, to which I said I was. But they have everything noted and know that I am not driving the car. They know that the dealership now has it and they were incredibly surprised - and took time putting me on hold when I told them which dealership it was - that they hadn't come back to me (and this was at 11am this morning).
To say that I find it incredibly discourteous to not even call me to offer their apologies that I am so disappointed with the vehicle is an understatement. I had hoped that they were true to their word on their website:
"We really will either live or die with how we respond to our Fiat, Alfa Romeo and Chrysler Jeep customers. You can rely on us to always treat you, no matter what your interest is, in a manner we would expected to be treated ourselves."
I guess they're dying....
They haven't called; they haven't e-mailed. The only thing they have done is nothing. Oh, except stare at me as I walked out.
The finance company were advised today that I have rejected the car. They wanted to know if I was to continue with my payments, to which I said I was. But they have everything noted and know that I am not driving the car. They know that the dealership now has it and they were incredibly surprised - and took time putting me on hold when I told them which dealership it was - that they hadn't come back to me (and this was at 11am this morning).
To say that I find it incredibly discourteous to not even call me to offer their apologies that I am so disappointed with the vehicle is an understatement. I had hoped that they were true to their word on their website:
"We really will either live or die with how we respond to our Fiat, Alfa Romeo and Chrysler Jeep customers. You can rely on us to always treat you, no matter what your interest is, in a manner we would expected to be treated ourselves."
I guess they're dying....
No warning lights at all. The stop/start does not operate but it gives no warning about it.
It just runs better for some reason, and I'm keen to see if anyone else has the same result.
