Technical Erratic starting - to do with the Code light?

[ClusterBlock]

I have a 1999 899cc Seicento which I bought last year. It has become a bit erratic at starting cold. Even when it's only been left for a couple of hours it might take three tries. Parking up a slope seems to make it worse although I'm not 100% sure about this. I normally drive it once or twice a week, it's not sitting long periods.

Might the CODE light have something to do with this? I noticed that the light was on when I peeled off a little square of electrical tape I noticed after having the car a few months. But if the immobiliser is set to immobilise the car - wouldn't that mean it never starts? I have two blue keys but not the red one.

Another possibility is that not enough power is getting to the starter, since rats chewed the insulation off the big wires coming from the battery. I wrapped them up in electrical tape and took it to a garage, where it started immediately each time for the mechanic, so he couldn't diagnose what was wrong. He wrapped up the cables neatly in tape but he didn't think this was the cause because the metal wasn't damaged.

Any ideas would be much appreciated!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Unsure of what the code light is. Can I suggest a photo. I doubt the rodent and insulation thing is the cause. Have you done standard stuff like cleaning the throttle body, plugs and leads. It sounds like the fuel pump might also be allowing drain back? If its an immobiliser issue you need someone more expert than I am. Make sure the ignition is clean and dry as a fisrt as condensation does cause havocat this time of year and that just loves a dusty and dirty playground.

 

[FiatMatt94]

The orange key symbol is the Fiat Key Code light which should nornally illuminate when you turn on the ignition then it should go out for you to then start the car so if the light goes out after a few seconds then in theory all should be good with that so I'd possibly rule the imobiliser out although some SPI's did sometimes suffer from this it would do it all the time. If you ever did have imobiliser problems there are some companys who can do an imobiliser delete you would just have to make sure they deal with the Magneti Marelli IAW 16F ECU as in the 899. It could be a number of things but I'm thinking sensors as 899's are particularly fussy & tempermental when it comes to sensors, so sensors in question are

1) Coolant temp sensor, this is located on top of the thermostat housing & are probably the fussiest of all the sensors. These cause erratic starting issues when faulty as it sends false signals to the ECU which then overfuels it thus causing irratic starting. When buying these only buy either Genuine Fiat or Magneti Marelli parts as they are the only ones that work & last, the pattern ones are awful & don't last long, the part number is 46477022. Shop4Parts do Marelli ones for less than £10

2) Crank sensor, these are prone on Cento's & can leave you stranded of it completely goes. Either the plastic sensor on the end cracks or the wire breaks, you'll see the sensor by removing the driver's side wheel. Check for any cracks on the sensor itself & the wire, if all is good unbolt the sensor which are 2 8mm bolts & give it a clean. Be careful not to bend the bracket the sensor sits in though as this will upset the timing. This sensor it doesn't seem to matter which brand they are as long as it works. One thing to note is there are 2 different connectors, earlier Cinq's had 2 pins where as later ones & Sei's had the 3 pin one.

3) Coils could be starting to break down & like the crank sensor will leave you stranded when it goes, another known thing for Cento's there are a lot of cheap aftermarket/Chinesium ones but again they are awful & don't last. You can buy a pair of decent Bosch coils & get new decent leads for less than £40.

4) Idle Control Valve, I think you'll probably know by now where this is going as it's another known Cento thing although these don't really cause erratic starting it'll cause erratic uneven idle/hunting as the pin inside the valve gets stuck, it's located on the side at the rear of the throttle body. Like the crank sensor brand doesn't seem to matter as long as it works but you have to make sure it's for an 899 as other Fiat's of the era used the same sensor but the pin's were all different width, length etc. Some also come with new torx bolts which I would get as some animals like to over tighten them & round them off. The part number for the 899 valve is 9944470.

I think thats everything covered

 

[ClusterBlock]

Unsure of what the code light is. Can I suggest a photo. I doubt the rodent and insulation thing is the cause. Have you done standard stuff like cleaning the throttle body, plugs and leads. It sounds like the fuel pump might also be allowing drain back? If its an immobiliser issue you need someone more expert than I am. Make sure the ignition is clean and dry as a fisrt as condensation does cause havocat this time of year and that just loves a dusty and dirty playground.

The code light has to do with the immobiliser. The Seicento is such a desirable car that Fiat had to do something to stop people stealing them.

I haven't done the standard stuff you mention. I really should learn how to do that stuff. I have bought a Cinquecento Haynes manual anyway.

 

[ClusterBlock]

The orange key symbol is the Fiat Key Code light which should nornally illuminate when you turn on the ignition then it should go out for you to then start the car so if the light goes out after a few seconds then in theory all should be good with that so I'd possibly rule the imobiliser out although some SPI's did sometimes suffer from this it would do it all the time. If you ever did have imobiliser problems there are some companys who can do an imobiliser delete you would just have to make sure they deal with the Magneti Marelli IAW 16F ECU as in the 899. It could be a number of things but I'm thinking sensors as 899's are particularly fussy & tempermental when it comes to sensors, so sensors in question are

1) Coolant temp sensor, this is located on top of the thermostat housing & are probably the fussiest of all the sensors. These cause erratic starting issues when faulty as it sends false signals to the ECU which then overfuels it thus causing irratic starting. When buying these only buy either Genuine Fiat or Magneti Marelli parts as they are the only ones that work & last, the pattern ones are awful & don't last long, the part number is 46477022. Shop4Parts do Marelli ones for less than £10

2) Crank sensor, these are prone on Cento's & can leave you stranded of it completely goes. Either the plastic sensor on the end cracks or the wire breaks, you'll see the sensor by removing the driver's side wheel. Check for any cracks on the sensor itself & the wire, if all is good unbolt the sensor which are 2 8mm bolts & give it a clean. Be careful not to bend the bracket the sensor sits in though as this will upset the timing. This sensor it doesn't seem to matter which brand they are as long as it works. One thing to note is there are 2 different connectors, earlier Cinq's had 2 pins where as later ones & Sei's had the 3 pin one.

3) Coils could be starting to break down & like the crank sensor will leave you stranded when it goes, another known thing for Cento's there are a lot of cheap aftermarket/Chinesium ones but again they are awful & don't last. You can buy a pair of decent Bosch coils & get new decent leads for less than £40.

4) Idle Control Valve, I think you'll probably know by now where this is going as it's another known Cento thing although these don't really cause erratic starting it'll cause erratic uneven idle/hunting as the pin inside the valve gets stuck, it's located on the side at the rear of the throttle body. Like the crank sensor brand doesn't seem to matter as long as it works but you have to make sure it's for an 899 as other Fiat's of the era used the same sensor but the pin's were all different width, length etc. Some also come with new torx bolts which I would get as some animals like to over tighten them & round them off. The part number for the 899 valve is 9944470.

I think thats everything covered

Thank you for your detailed response!

I never had any problems with sensors when I had my Panda, but maybe it's just the risk of having a modern car!

 

[Mike1alike]

Some also come with new torx bolts which I would get as some animals like to over tighten them & round them off.

That is true!

 

[timmycm850]

When starting. Are you pausing with the ignition on listening waiting for the fuel pump to fully prime before attempting to start.

 

[FiatMatt94]

Thank you for your detailed response!

I never had any problems with sensors when I had my Panda, but maybe it's just the risk of having a modern car!

Your welcome, I've had Cinq's & now this Sei & they're all the same was the Panda carb or SPI. My dad had many Panda 1000's when I was growing up, they were the most practical car you could buy & the 2wd ones were just as good offroad as the 4wd, also the amount you could get in them brimmed to the roof with wet oak, every panel for a 131 would fit & also a XR3i tailgate with the spoiler still attached. All his were carb apart from one very early SPI one with the Bosch system which we remember well as it was nothing but hassle to the point where my dad had enough of it & because it was K reg which was the changeover from carb to SPI so Panda's on that reg would have had either. You could tell which was which just by looking at the downpipe from underneath as carb were twin downpipe whereas SPI was a single downpipe, he pulled all the SPI system out & converted it to Carburettor as he had all the parts but it was quite involved though, fuel tank, exhaust & other bits had to be changed but after the conversion it was spot on

 

[ClusterBlock]

When starting. Are you pausing with the ignition on listening waiting for the fuel pump to fully prime before attempting to start.

I haven't been, no. It starts, then stops making some kind of noise?

 

[ClusterBlock]

Your welcome, I've had Cinq's & now this Sei & they're all the same was the Panda carb or SPI. My dad had many Panda 1000's when I was growing up, they were the most practical car you could buy & the 2wd ones were just as good offroad as the 4wd, also the amount you could get in them brimmed to the roof with wet oak, every panel for a 131 would fit & also a XR3i tailgate with the spoiler still attached. All his were carb apart from one very early SPI one with the Bosch system which we remember well as it was nothing but hassle to the point where my dad had enough of it & because it was K reg which was the changeover from carb to SPI so Panda's on that reg would have had either. You could tell which was which just by looking at the downpipe from underneath as carb were twin downpipe whereas SPI was a single downpipe, he pulled all the SPI system out & converted it to Carburettor as he had all the parts but it was quite involved though, fuel tank, exhaust & other bits had to be changed but after the conversion it was spot on

My old Panda was a K reg and I had problems with the fuel injection in that. You could fit quite a bit more in it though, yes. I was bringing a cold frame home the other day and the largest section wouldn't fit in the back, my husband had to take it home on the bus.

 

[timmycm850]

I haven't been, no. It starts, then stops making some kind of noise?

Sounds like me getting up in the mornings