General Engine will not start after 2 weeks standing.

[Pauljoanss]

I am based in Wantage but will be away for a week from tomorrow, so if you were offering help then many thanks, but expect cables should be here when I return next weekend.
May still need help if nothing definitive from ECU scan.

 

[blu73]

Mmmmm, i wonder if its just not got a very good earth - can't remember if its been suggested or tried yet and too lazy to read back through the thread O

Have you tried putting a jump lead from battery -ve to somewhere on the engine - this provides a good earth and if it works means one of the earth leads isn't contacting well...

Just thinking as I type here, and now I have said that i seem to remember you saying it turns over nice and fast and that generally means its got a good earth. For sake of the few seconds it take to do it may as well try it I suppose.

Let us know when you got the cables and stuff

 

[varesecrazy]

I am based in Wantage but will be away for a week from tomorrow, so if you were offering help then many thanks, but expect cables should be here when I return next weekend.
May still need help if nothing definitive from ECU scan.

PM sent

 

[Pauljoanss]

Mmmmm, i wonder if its just not got a very good earth - can't remember if its been suggested or tried yet and too lazy to read back through the thread O

Have you tried putting a jump lead from battery -ve to somewhere on the engine - this provides a good earth and if it works means one of the earth leads isn't contacting well...

Just thinking as I type here, and now I have said that i seem to remember you saying it turns over nice and fast and that generally means its got a good earth. For sake of the few seconds it take to do it may as well try it I suppose.

Let us know when you got the cables and stuff

Yes anything is worth a few secs, tried jumping battery earth to chassis, ECU and fuel block, no change, always that relay click after 2 secs and coils go to 0v.
No action now until next weekend when cables should be here.

 

[flisko]

someone suggested that you try with spare key

 

[varesecrazy]

someone suggested that you try with spare key

YES- they did,

OP is now away until next weekend..
turns out they are not far from me.. so should get an MES reading by the following week,

Charlie

 

[varesecrazy]

lets hope your LEADS have now arrived,
Charlie

 

[Pauljoanss]

Have cables, tried to connect yesterday but failed, only Comm 3 showing, now loaded a driver from supplied disc, Comm 10 also showing and connected ok.

First the Errors showed quite a few, shorts etc, all cleared except for two:-
1. "ECU Disallowed to start engine - (reason) Fiat Code -(state) [A] - (Mil) not checked."
2. "No Code or Linked Down - (reason) Fiat Code - (state) [A] - (Mil) checked".

Went thro the tests, all passed except "Generic Relay - Failed".

Have all these and the first page of parameters filed in a word document, but not sure how to attach here.
Hope this info will help.

 

[varesecrazy]

First the Errors showed quite a few, shorts etc, all cleared except for two:-
1. "ECU Disallowed to start engine - (reason) Fiat Code -(state) [A] - (Mil) not checked."
2. "No Code or Linked Down - (reason) Fiat Code - (state) [A] - (Mil) checked".

Went thro the tests, all passed except "Generic Relay - Failed".

Have all these and the first page of parameters filed in a word document, but not sure how to attach here.
Hope this info will help.

what software..?? MES.?

Charlie

 

[Pauljoanss]

IAW Scan2 (v0.84).
I see it creates a log file (text) which I could send if it would be useful and if I knew how to attach it.
For me, the scan results are not very informative but hope they mean something to someone else.

 

[guacamole]

Did you manage to try the spare key to start the engine?

You never know and it would be a tremendous shame to simply trust dashboard lights without actually trying the spare key.
The ECU will stop the engine starting if the key you are using is suddenly not recognised, for whatever reason.
It will just turn over on the starter but never fire. Experienced it myself. Then I tried the second key, it fired instantly.

 

[blu73]

certainly seems to be immobiliser related from the codes... do you have a spare key?

 

[Pauljoanss]

We have two keys, one bigger brown one and a smaller blue one, have tried both.
Did not realise the difference, but now reading thro the manual I see the big one is more important and they suggest it should on be used when "absolutely necessary". We use it all the time.
Also reading thro the manual and the term "Fiat CODE" is used. Snap! same as came up on my error messages but I had not understood what it meant. Now suspecting code fault.
The code light on dashboard never shows, but manual says it should initially flash on, have taken dashboard out to check bulb and it is ok. Cannot find any instructions anywhere how to run check on dashboard lights, like you can on some cars.
Will try and find wire that feeds this light and check for voltage, connections to dashboard could be poor.

 

[blu73]

yes the code light should come on with ignition and then go out again... using the other key, commonly called the red key, isn't a problem it won't do any damage to anything they just say that cause back in the day if you needed a new key you really needed the red key, they used it to code the new keys. Things have moved on and getting a new key can be done without the red key (yet some people seem to try using it as a bartering tool if its missing to get the price of a car down).

The code system is the key itself, an antenna on the column that detects it, a codebox under the dash and the ecu itself, they all go together as a set so if one is damaged you are a bit buggered. Good idea to check everything looks ok wiring wise, like that the antenna wires aren't damaged somehow and its properly plugged into the code box and the like.. And i believe from memory the signal wire from code box to ecu is a blue wire (might be remembering wrong though!)

However, you can get the immobliser removed from the ecu if all else fails, can't remember the name of the guy on here that can do it but will prob be somewhere local, have seen them advertise on ebay as well. You would have to tell the insurance company that you don't have a immobilser anymore though. Alternatively you can (if you can find a breaker) swap the ecu and code box and keys (can change all the locks over too so you still have one key). But hopefully this will be a bad connection or a damaged wire, no fun to trace but cheap to fix.

 

[varesecrazy]

We have two keys, one bigger brown one and a smaller blue one, have tried both.
Did not realise the difference, but now reading thro the manual I see the big one is more important and they suggest it should on be used when "absolutely necessary". We use it all the time.
Also reading thro the manual and the term "Fiat CODE" is used. Snap! same as came up on my error messages but I had not understood what it meant. Now suspecting code fault.
The code light on dashboard never shows, but manual says it should initially flash on, have taken dashboard out to check bulb and it is ok. Cannot find any instructions anywhere how to run check on dashboard lights, like you can on some cars.
Will try and find wire that feeds this light and check for voltage, connections to dashboard could be poor.

IF you want some morale support we will be at the Bell in Standlake tonight,
see EVENTS section,

can even do an MES demo if required

otherwise I'll try and bring it to Wantage in the next week,

Charlie

 

[Pauljoanss]

SOLVED!!
Well I hope. Following previous posts explaining the key detection devices, I managed to find the detection ring around the ignition switch and followed the lead to the code box. This has two plugs, one connecting with the detection ring (2 wires) and a multi pin plug which I assume connects with the ECU. After unplugging and plugging both, the Code fault light suddenly appeared on the dashboard. Turning ignition off/on the light flashed on then off and hey presto the engine started, almost first time.
Cannot be exactly certain which plug or wire was at fault but at least I know where to go if the problem repeats.
One strange thing is that sometimes the Code light does not go out but the engine starts ok. I rarely drive this car, but I now remember seeing that light on while driving along and always wondered what it was. In theory this should not happen?
On reflection, the fact that no code fault light was showing on the dashboard does not necessarily mean there is no code fault, this misled our diagnosis of the problem.
Many thanks to all those who offered advice and in particular to Blu73 and Varesecrazy, could not have got there without you.
Best Regards

 

[blu73]

:woot:

and no, the light should never come on once its done the on/off thing at startup - if the car works though i'd not really worry about it personally.. But now you got the cables you can clear the codes and see if anything gets logged when it stays on.

 

[varesecrazy]

:woot:

and no, the light should never come on once its done the on/off thing at startup - if the car works though i'd not really worry about it personally.. But now you got the cables you can clear the codes and see if anything gets logged when it stays on.

Hi,

good news - I'm happy to use MES to read codes /function , etc