Engine stops

[Eric Brussen]

This is what happend twice over the past three weeks:
I'm driving along the highway, I take the exit, I'm braking to stop at the end of the exitlane -> engine stops. The radio stays on so there's still power. Could it be my exhaust that can't rid of the pressure?? Or could it be that the engine is not getting enough fuel? Cause, when I remove the fuelcap the fueltank sucks air and the tank expands. (I've been asking around, and they all say that's normal.) Although I can't remember my first two cars doing that. (both Fiat's)
Hope someone can help me with this. Pretty damn dangerous when all of sudden your engine stops and the powersteering goes down...

Greetz,
Eric Brussen (NL)

 

[Tom]

Engine size? Car age & milage?

Its normal for the tank to do that on modern cars, they have a closed system to stop fuel vapours getting out and hurting the little bunny rabbits and trees and other hippy anti-car stuff.

Are you SURE its sucking air in? Its most likely to actually be blowing it out.

This seems to be reasonably common having the engine just die. No-one has bothered to come back with the cure so either they are still suffering or have had it fixed and are not sharing.

I'd say its throttle pot or MAP sensor related, when you slow down the ECU things 'oh dear, no air' and shuts off. If your exhaust was blocked then it would not idle and it would run badly.

 

[Eric Brussen]

Re: Re: Engine stops

Engine is a 1.4 12v. The car is from 1997. Milage is 58.200 km's. I've got a Sebring exhaust. (centre box still attached).
About the fueltank, it is sucking air in, cause I can hear the fueltank expanding when I open the fuelcap, so there's a vacuum... And yep, the fuel vapours do exit the fueltank.
You say it's a sensor... hmmm.. Maybe I'll go to my Fiat garage and get the computer there to diagnose it...

Thanks for the reply.

Greetz,
Eric Brussen (NL)

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Does the injection light come on ever while the engine is running? If it doesn't there is no point in going to Fiat, they will just charge you money and say nothing is wrong.

Does it restart first time after it stops like that?

 

[re-Mark (Holland)]

Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Hey Eric, waar woon je precies in Nederland, waar heb je de Sebring gekocht en hoeveel moest ie kosten..

Verder dingen aan je bravo gedaan?

Groeten van Mark
ook een 1.4 12v met bijna dezelfde kilometerstand

Heb jij toevallig interesse in een Nederlands bravoforum? (Of heb ik dat allang gevraagd misschien)

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

I have also had that problem with my 1.6.
it only happened one evening continuosly on the way home, everytime i stopped at lights etc it would just die with headlights and radio still on.
A more common problem with my car is the revs jumping from 1500 - 2000 on its own first thing in the morning when its warming up.
I believe it to be a problem with my idle air control valve.
My car is booked in to have a diag test on the 24th so hopefully the computer will pick up the problem. I shall let you know how i get on.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

The diag test won't pick that up. The diag test is only useful if the injection light is coming on while you drive.

Fixing the idle valve is a 30min job to do yourself. Save your money.

Your symptoms do point to idle valve, if it sticks fully shut, the engine will die every time you let off the throttle.

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

well im actually having the diag done as part of the 24000 service. When im there im gonna try and get some advice on how to remove the idle valve for cleaning as i have yet failed to find how to remove it. Here is a pic its different to the other sort that are easy to clean.

http://www.fotango.com/p/eba00324180f00000001.jpg

cheers

Richard

 

[Eric Brussen]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Thanks all for the replies. I think I'll ask the mechanic when the car goes for it's APK (don't know what it's called in the UK, it's a checkup of the car which insures the driver(s) that the car is safe and has no failures.) It's not that it happens every time I let go of the throttle. It only happend 2 times... If the problem keeps coming back I'll go to my Fiat Garage. The car is getting it's maintenance in one or two weeks, so maybe I'll spot something then.
Which brings me to another guestion; what brand/type of (engine)oil do you guys use? I'm planning to put Castrol Oil in mine. (and a new oil filter ofcourse)

Greetz,
Eric Brussen (NL)

 

[Eric Brussen]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Hey Re-Mark,

Nederlanders vindt je ook overal he. Ik kom uit Wageningen, bij Arnhem (Gelderland).

Wat betreft mijn Bravo:
Reeds getuned:
- Bravo Kit
- Sebring uitlaat (2 x 76 mm rond -> €290,-)
- Traanplaat matten
- Pioneer DEH P5530 CD/MP3 radio

Wat ik nog wil:
- Indy kit achterbumper
- Middendemper verwijderen en vervangen door pijp (binnenkort)
- Pipercross Filter (er is geen andere, helaas)
- 17 inch 1000 miglia velgen
- Veerpootbrug
en wie weet wat nog meer.

Nederlands Bravo forum lijkt me wel wat. Maar ik blijf uiteraard ook op deze kijken.

Je kunt me bereiken op brussen@hotmail.com
Ik denk dat ze het hier niet zo op prijs stellen dat we Nederlands schrijven.

Greetz,
Eric

P.S. Ik probeer foto's te plaatsen.

 

[nick_wheelho]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

tom,
my 1.4 seems to cut out completely when i am braking - normally approaching a junction - with the clutch fully depressed- i have been told by other forum users that is it the throttle postion sensor or something like that - thing is i cut out on my way home from gaydon as i was turning onto the m1 sliproad - going 40 with the car cutting out and lose of power steering isnt fun!! - any ideas?

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Throttle pot. Was probably me that suggested it.

Find a straight bit of road, 3rd/4th gear, 1500rpm and SLOWLY press the pedal down. See if there are any pedal positions or RPMs where there is a flat spot.

Don't just boot it, you need to go through the whole pedal range.

The other options are idle vale (but I would expect eratic idling or dificult starting when cold) or MAP sensor (would run like shite).

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Forgot to ask, does it restart first turn of the key after it has died like that?

 

[nick_wheelho]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

tom,
yep restart on first turn, just to let you know i dont know what my rpms are because i dont have a rev counter on my car - shity brava s spec!! - so just listen?
cheers
nick

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Yeah, just listen. If it didn't restart first pop then it could be a fuel prob, blocked filter, pump etc..

 

[Stu Cook]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Ive got a 1.4 12v 98 bravo, ive had similar trouble. I find the when you drive with the fuel cap OFF the car drives far better and doesnt seem to suffer from the flat spots! I also use a bit of shell optimax which i think does give a bit extra boost and response in the fiat engine.
Hope this helps
Stu

 

[nick_wheelho]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

tom,
j had my uncle take a look at the throttle position sensor thing and in rest it didnt touch the contact point and the wire wasnt tight - is that a contributor?
i appreciate your help mate!! resident mechanic!!
nick

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

LOL!
That might be it. The ECU probably thinks the throttle has disapeared and then shits itself. You should get a linear resistance reading from closed to full open. If not its knackered.

A mates motorbike (ZX12) has 2 MAP sensors, one for outside pressure, one for manifold pressure. The manifold one failed and was indicating a higher pressure than outside. The ECU could not cope and the bike would not run at all. Its all too complex!!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

Tom

Can you still get vapour locks with injection engines? The symptoms certainly sound very similar.

Pete

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Engine stops

The Mk1s certainly have a constant flow system, the pressure valve vents fuel back to the tank so any air would be flushed through.

The Mk2s I think have a different system where it doesn't flow back.

You'd expect a lock in the system to cause probs at all revs, not just when you shut the throttle. Also it would take time to clear the lock when you restart.

As the pumps are 60-80psi, its less likely to get a lock than with a 5psi carb pump.