Wow - I've been useful 
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Election then - Kinda inevitable. FF secret ballot!
- Thread starter Dr_Pepper
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Election then - Kinda inevitable. FF secret ballot!
I suppose then that the Wall Street Crash and the subsequent world wide depression that followed also fuelled the upsurgence of the Labour party, but I still feel that, bearing in mind the Liberals were still a party for the lower and working classes that with decent leadership they should have been able to compete on equal terms with the Labour party. I guess if the politicians that formed the Labour party were very popular, they would have taken the vast majority of the Liberal voters with them, but I would be very surprised to see a similar event work successfully in today's political climate despite considerable apathy and discontent amongst the electorate. I still find it incredible the way in which political swing occur in desparate times, like the Nazi's going from being thought of as a joke at one election and gaining power in the next. The same can be said for Mussolini's rise to power. It's amazing to me, when you look at characters like Mussolini and Hitler, they are almost cartoonish, I can't believe that people took them seriously. I suppose even more recently Pol Pot came to power under very similar circumstances. All these things make me question the wisdom of democracy and allowing a largely ill educated public to decide who comes into power.
Sorry for going slightly off topic, at least I'm sticking with Politics.
Sorry for going slightly off topic, at least I'm sticking with Politics.
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Thanks for the history - Just thought I'd say it was interesting.
I think that even if Blair tells us that it is best for the economy, and then holds a referendum, he will still get a resounding NO from 95% of the poopulation. There's no 50/50 about it you'll be hard pushed to find even a few people that want it. Which leads me to believe that he might try other means...
I think that even if Blair tells us that it is best for the economy, and then holds a referendum, he will still get a resounding NO from 95% of the poopulation. There's no 50/50 about it you'll be hard pushed to find even a few people that want it. Which leads me to believe that he might try other means...
:yeahthat:Dr_Pepper said:
Ah Rich you missed my point, I am not saying there's a 50/50 change the people will vote it in, I actually said there's a 90% change they won't. What I did say is that it's a 50/50 chance that the choice made (i.e. no) will be the right choice and since the nation doesn't have a clue about it, it's a pretty random choice hence 50/50.
Although it's always a risk to raise political arguments on a leisure forum, I have to reply to a few comments.
Your right we give a lot of money to the EU, but what you have to realise is that the UK is the European headquarters for a lot of international service based organisations. Should we leave the EU, these companies will move to another EU company which would have more advantageous tarding abilities within Europe. This type of business generates a huge amount more income for the country as a whole than we pay in taxes to support the other poorer sectors of the EU. I actually work all over Europe and as a whole we have one of the lowest personal and corporation taxes in Europe, another reason companies come here to set up European headquarters. My company is heavily linked with a European company and if we left the EU, then we would probably have to reduce the size of the company. In addition companies such as Mini, Land Rover etc would more than likely move production to a EU member to make trading easier. Sony is a large employer in the UK and the UK headquarters covers the EU markets, the Middle east and Africa, I think you could be pretty sure they would pull out of the UK if we left the EU.
I am not a great fan of many of the stupid EU regulations, but we need the trading links to keep the economy healthy. We have heavily based our economy on service based industries rather than manufacturing, which leaves us in a weak position to remain competitive.
As for the Euro, I am not qualified to make the decision and it would be absolutely stupid to ask me the make the decision based on some prejudice I may or may not have. I know plenty of people who just say no because we are "British", but have no concept of how the euro works. Whether it is right or not I don't know, but it cost my company 10's of thousands of pounds in currency fluctuations when we worked on projects last year.
As for America, we do have a good relationship and trading position with them, but again the UK is used to a great extent as a trading partner gaining them access to the EU market.
At the end of the day politicians have a job to do and you have to make decisions as if you were employing somebody to do a specific job. Having said that the latest tory tactic of making a poster saying "Vote Tory and wipe the smile off Tony's face" is hardly a statement of their ability to run a country.
It is also ridiculous to vote for a local MP who may be useless in order to get the party you want in power. Our local MP is incredibly good and I think he is by far the most qualified to do the job, although he is a liberal and I wouldn't want them in power. So I either have to put up with some doughnut of a local MP because I don't want the liberals in or I vote for the best man for job and risk them getting a majority in goverment.
Anyway that is my view on the situation.
Almost forgot the Iraq war, regardless of the intelligence or motivation behind the war it was a decision I would have hated to make. Also the outcome is that an evil dictator has been removed.
Your right we give a lot of money to the EU, but what you have to realise is that the UK is the European headquarters for a lot of international service based organisations. Should we leave the EU, these companies will move to another EU company which would have more advantageous tarding abilities within Europe. This type of business generates a huge amount more income for the country as a whole than we pay in taxes to support the other poorer sectors of the EU. I actually work all over Europe and as a whole we have one of the lowest personal and corporation taxes in Europe, another reason companies come here to set up European headquarters. My company is heavily linked with a European company and if we left the EU, then we would probably have to reduce the size of the company. In addition companies such as Mini, Land Rover etc would more than likely move production to a EU member to make trading easier. Sony is a large employer in the UK and the UK headquarters covers the EU markets, the Middle east and Africa, I think you could be pretty sure they would pull out of the UK if we left the EU.
I am not a great fan of many of the stupid EU regulations, but we need the trading links to keep the economy healthy. We have heavily based our economy on service based industries rather than manufacturing, which leaves us in a weak position to remain competitive.
As for the Euro, I am not qualified to make the decision and it would be absolutely stupid to ask me the make the decision based on some prejudice I may or may not have. I know plenty of people who just say no because we are "British", but have no concept of how the euro works. Whether it is right or not I don't know, but it cost my company 10's of thousands of pounds in currency fluctuations when we worked on projects last year.
As for America, we do have a good relationship and trading position with them, but again the UK is used to a great extent as a trading partner gaining them access to the EU market.
At the end of the day politicians have a job to do and you have to make decisions as if you were employing somebody to do a specific job. Having said that the latest tory tactic of making a poster saying "Vote Tory and wipe the smile off Tony's face" is hardly a statement of their ability to run a country.
It is also ridiculous to vote for a local MP who may be useless in order to get the party you want in power. Our local MP is incredibly good and I think he is by far the most qualified to do the job, although he is a liberal and I wouldn't want them in power. So I either have to put up with some doughnut of a local MP because I don't want the liberals in or I vote for the best man for job and risk them getting a majority in goverment.
Anyway that is my view on the situation.
Almost forgot the Iraq war, regardless of the intelligence or motivation behind the war it was a decision I would have hated to make. Also the outcome is that an evil dictator has been removed.
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OK, that's bizarre where I live we get one vote for the local election and one for the general election, so we can have the local MP we want and the government we want, surely that is the same everywhere.
As far as Iraq is concerned, many people would agree that Sadam should have been removed, the question is that are the US and UK the correct people to be making that decision and taking that action.
As far as the EU is concerned, I totally agree, despite the cost, the UK will benefit. It's actually not so much that we will benefit, although we will in the long term, it's more the fact that if we pull out it will be have very detrimental affects.
As far as Iraq is concerned, many people would agree that Sadam should have been removed, the question is that are the US and UK the correct people to be making that decision and taking that action.
As far as the EU is concerned, I totally agree, despite the cost, the UK will benefit. It's actually not so much that we will benefit, although we will in the long term, it's more the fact that if we pull out it will be have very detrimental affects.
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No you don't! You get county council elections as one ballot paper, then your MP is elected with the other... then your MP toddles off to parliament and forms the government with his buddies...
I'm not going crazy am I?
No that's how it works. Of course not all local councils hold their elections on the same day as the general election.
OK, I'm confused now. What's the difference between that and what I said, although I didn't word mine very accurately.
Oh I see it's kind of the reverse, except I was thinking of the County Council as the local part and the MP as the general part, although he is obviously a local MP. Sorry I was reading Poggy's post wrongly. My local MP's are all idiots so it's fairly irrelevant for me. Fortunately they have some good people working around them in the local councils.
Still only one person has been round to see me so I'm still voting for them. Not really that strange: the Lib Dems wouldm't dare because they know we would roast them alive because everyone in the village would pay more under their plans, pretty much the same for Labour. They don't want to face the inevetable truth.
For those who are fed-up of the same old political messages get these. I like the Deaths, Dungeons and Taxes party myself
For those who are fed-up of the same old political messages get these. I like the Deaths, Dungeons and Taxes party myself
You would vote in a party since you would be paying a little more on a fairer taxation system? Obviously you would have voted FOR poll tax Helzie.
On top of that, the tory spending plans are obviously not possible, it would be great if the country could improve with less money but that's about as likely as Thatcher getting back into power.
You can vote for the past if you want, I will be voting for the future. Hopefully next election the tories will be an alternative rather than a joke.
Either vote for the good policies from labour or lib dem, vote for the bad policies from the tory party, it's simple I swear!
On top of that, the tory spending plans are obviously not possible, it would be great if the country could improve with less money but that's about as likely as Thatcher getting back into power.
You can vote for the past if you want, I will be voting for the future. Hopefully next election the tories will be an alternative rather than a joke.
Either vote for the good policies from labour or lib dem, vote for the bad policies from the tory party, it's simple I swear!
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Come off it please don't turn into a politician Paul, I'm all for a bit of debate but I'm a bit sick of you having a go at people for their views!! Please let us know what you think but you are not the only one who has an opinion
Seems a good enough reason for voting for someone to me that they are the only ones who have bothered to advertise themselves. Here we have had info from Lib Dems, loads from Labour (who are in at the moment), Veritas and UKIP, but none from the Tories. The Labour guy even rang the bell but unfortunately I wasn't in. I don't think I would vote for a candidate who couldn't be arsed to even give us a info leaflet.
Seems a good enough reason for voting for someone to me that they are the only ones who have bothered to advertise themselves. Here we have had info from Lib Dems, loads from Labour (who are in at the moment), Veritas and UKIP, but none from the Tories. The Labour guy even rang the bell but unfortunately I wasn't in
. I don't think I would vote for a candidate who couldn't be arsed to even give us a info leaflet.
Richard, this sort of debate is about people stating things like I have done, whether people disagree or not!
I do confirm however that I still don't see why everybody is yet to see straight through the tory policies. I suppose that's marketing for you. "Are you sinking like we're sinking?"
Also Helzie knows I am not serious.
I do confirm however that I still don't see why everybody is yet to see straight through the tory policies. I suppose that's marketing for you. "Are you sinking like we're sinking?"
Also Helzie knows I am not serious.
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To me, their spending plans are bull****, but hardly any better than Labour's, who also reckon they can save £35 from the civil service. As I've said before I do agree with some of their other policies though.
But labour don't pretend to be able to save any magic money and I trust GB.
Have you noticed that the media for some reason is turning Brown into a God like figure lately? Somebody has a little plan...
Have you noticed that the media for some reason is turning Brown into a God like figure lately? Somebody has a little plan...
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The media? No.
Pay attention!
Seriously, they have talked him up lately left right and centre.
Seriously, they have talked him up lately left right and centre.
The problem is that a lot of people vote for the party they feel represents their status regardless of their policies.
This is probably the only drawback with giving everybody the vote, some people pay no attention to the policies or debates and just vote for a party because they always have or because they would never vote for the other.
I am not a Tory hater, but like I said before their whole debate has been based on Tony being a liar about Iraq and posters saying "Vote Tory, wipe the smile off Tony's face". Hardly the most professional approach based on policies and their abilities.
This is probably the only drawback with giving everybody the vote, some people pay no attention to the policies or debates and just vote for a party because they always have or because they would never vote for the other.
I am not a Tory hater, but like I said before their whole debate has been based on Tony being a liar about Iraq and posters saying "Vote Tory, wipe the smile off Tony's face". Hardly the most professional approach based on policies and their abilities.
