Election then - Kinda inevitable. FF secret ballot!

[Neofolis]

The advantage with lab scientists is that once they have their VIVA most leave and work in the public sector and earn a fair amount more. This, however doesn't interest my missus, because she is obsessed with deadly bugs and you don't really get too many in the public sector.

 

[Neofolis]

Well you could say that my job has possible life and death consequences. My boss had to sack one of his previous employees after he managed to burn a customer's house down.

 

[The Negotiator]

And the last recent **** up by a chemical engineer killed plenty in America.

 

[bad_boy_racer]

And Matt, wouldn't you rather vote for a party who would do things you want rather than a single policy you agree with? The idea that "it won't make a difference" is silly. If everybody thought that...

Well I've already said in this thread that there are multiple parties who have single policies I agree with, but none who have an overall edge, so it IS about choosing the best of the bunch really. And the idea is in no way silly. In the constituency in which I live the Conservative MP has a 13,000 vote majority! My vote against him WILL NOT make a difference, he will still be re-elected. This is due to the crap electoral system that we have. I agree with the LibDems on this one, PR should be introduced, then each vote would count and as a direct result, I believe that voter apathy would decrease. But again with the electoral systems, it is a case of picking the best of the bunch, as having studied them in some depth, there are none which come anywhere near close enough to provide a solution that would satisfy everyone.

 

[Neofolis]

The things is with most of these life and death jobs, they are vocational positions. You want dedicated people who do the job, because it is what they really want to do, if you pay more you will start attracting people who are doing it for the wrong reasons, which would be a bad thing.

 

[bad_boy_racer]

Well you could say that my job has possible life and death consequences. My boss had to sack one of his previous employees after he managed to burn a customer's house down.

I think you know what I am getting at in general though....... You aren't exactly going to be pulling a bullet/baby from someone are you?
And had the Firefighters been payed more that house may not have burned down because they would not have been on strike!!! lmao! (I realise that that probably wasn't that case but couldn't resist )

 

[Neofolis]

I think that the idea is that whilst your one vote won't change the result, if people vote for who they really want it may be closer than the previous election and by the time the next election comes, people may not be thinking the same way if the majority has reduced sufficiently on this occasion.

 

[Dr_Pepper]

I'm not keen on firefighters being paid too much more, I don't like their actions or unrealistic pay demands when they are already paid waaay more than the police for example. On top of that there's no shorage of firefighters.

It does bug me when people play the "more responsibility so should be paid more card". It is true to an extent but for example in the case of firefighters this doesn't hold with me. Just becasue someone is a computer basher and someone else saves a few lives, doesn't mean one is more important than the other - at the end of the day a lot of computer bashers would make good firefighters. Plus, being a fireman is no more dangerous than a whole host of jobs.

The most dangerous jobs are builders and fisherman, firemen and soldiers aren't in the top ten. Firemen save lives yes, but it's their job to save lives. Someone's got to do it, it doesn't make them special.

 

[thefishdude]

Well I've already said in this thread that there are multiple parties who have single policies I agree with, but none who have an overall edge, so it IS about choosing the best of the bunch really. And the idea is in no way silly. In the constituency in which I live the Conservative MP has a 13,000 vote majority! My vote against him WILL NOT make a difference, he will still be re-elected. This is due to the crap electoral system that we have. I agree with the LibDems on this one, PR should be introduced, then each vote would count and as a direct result, I believe that voter apathy would decrease. But again with the electoral systems, it is a case of picking the best of the bunch, as having studied them in some depth, there are none which come anywhere near close enough to provide a solution that would satisfy everyone.

very intersting thread this, and just wanted to say i agree with above bad boy. all the candidates have something that i like so i can not chooose so i am going with what i feel most strongly about "europe" so ukip will get my vote not becuase i expect them to get in they wont. but more as a statement to show the people who get in just how many peopple feel strongly about certain issues.



....ok i confess it would take a miracle for me to vote conservative due to my upbringing in the she devil oops maggie era

 

[Neofolis]

I'm interested if anyone knows. The Liberal party in it's various guises and coallitions has been the third party in the coutry for a good many years now, but the Wigs, who were Liberals have been in power more often than any other party in this country, what happened. I've been looking through history to see if they made some kind of cataclismic mistake that they have not been forgiven for, but can't find anything, it just strikes me as a little strange.

 

[The Negotiator]

I'm not keen on firefighters being paid too much more, I don't like their actions or unrealistic pay demands when they are already paid waaay more than the police for example. On top of that there's no shorage of firefighters.


The most dangerous jobs are builders and fisherman, firemen and soldiers aren't in the top ten. Firemen save lives yes, but it's their job to save lives. Someone's got to do it, it doesn't make them special.

And the fact is that most of those firemen etc. wouldn't have a clue how to do some of the computer's basher's work, that's why they earn 100k and work 3 days a week.

If I did what I do at uni/sixthform/school and ended up earning less than a fireman/policeman it wouldn't be worth it. Without academic people the country and the world would collaspe.

 

[Neofolis]

I'm really hoping whoever gets in doesn't have a refferendum, otherwise there is no chance we will vote to go into Europe. Hopefully the politicians will make what I think is the right decision and go in.

As for voting for single party parties, yes it is a statement of public opinion and that is, I assume, all they intend to be, it's like a form of peaceful protest, but it does make me query what would happen if they did get in, they would suddenly have to create a load of policies that they hadn't even thought about. I realise it is very unlikely, but rather worrying that people could be voted in and then make up their minds what they are going to do, especially as these parties are often quite radical in their views.

For this reason I would never vote for a single policy party, on the off chance that they win.

 

[Neofolis]

Academics generally are far from being the highest earners though. The highest earners usually have and IQ just above average, but with high earners it's down to personality traits rather than mental ability.

 

[The Negotiator]

Me neither for the exact reasons as above. I think this happened with the couple of BNP seats.

But on the Euro issue, Blair said this evening that he won't go in unless it's financially beneficial for the country, right now it's not so nobody worry about it. On a side note, even Blair wouldn't dare about doing it without letting us decide, it would cause too much bother. Of course the country is ill-informed and on average, too stupid to make the right decision whatever that may be so we have a 50/50 change of making the right one.

 

[The Negotiator]

I'm not pretending to expect to earn a serious amount of money early on in my career, and I expect all the work I have put in to get to the stage I am will be overshadowed by a 19 year old estate agent in a Mini Cooper S, but I will be happier for it.

Though my Dad (headteacher) is daring me to try to beat his current salary with my first job. Of course I will only manage this if I go into finance and strike lucky. The head he took over from had a son who beat him working in the city with his first job, he also did an engineering degree So the challenge is on, then again, I think my job satisfaction would come from being in the police.

 

[Neofolis]

That was far too diplomatic for you, you basically said there is a 50/50 chance of making the right decision, because there is a 50/50 chance that the decision made was the right decision, if you know what I mean.

 

[bad_boy_racer]

I'm interested if anyone knows. The Liberal party in it's various guises and coallitions has been the third party in the coutry for a good many years now, but the Wigs, who were Liberals have been in power more often than any other party in this country, what happened. I've been looking through history to see if they made some kind of cataclismic mistake that they have not been forgiven for, but can't find anything, it just strikes me as a little strange.

Basically it all split and went tits up politically in 1846 with the repeal of the Corn laws. Before then (and the reform crisis of 1831-2) the political system in England was really Whigs and Tories. But both being differing degrees of Conservatism in reality. In these parties were various Liberal elements. Whigs really were only in power the most due to the political period previous (from 1780) and for a bit after due to a lack of "real" political opposition. After repeal the Tory party split, leaving Peelites, Radicals and some Whigs. After many years these groups came together to form the Liberal Party officially
during the Willis Room meetings of 1859. They then pretty much dominated the rest of the century until the early 1900's and the rise of the Labour party - which took a lot out of the Liberal party. From then on what with the wars and a conservative resurgence, the Liberals just died down as the power of the other 2 grew. As far as I am aware they never really made any cock up. However I feel that the LibDems are a substantially different party to the "Liberal" party of old?
That is clearly going to be the only time EVER that I get to use my history A level in real life!!!! Anyone wanna hear about Italian Unification now??!

 

[The Negotiator]

Well I don't know which is the right decision, I am too ill-informed and stupid to know. I know the country would probably decide no, since there are two choices I will assume them to be a 50/50 chance to be correct lol.

So yes, what you said is what I did. If I knew that the EURO was bad for us and I would probably say a 90% chance we would make the right choice, if I knew it was good I would probably say a 10% chance.

 

[Neofolis]

Thanks for that history lesson, very helpful, but leads me to believe that the Liberals must have has some very poor leaders during the early part of the last century to have lost so much ground to the Labour and Tory parties. I think the LibDems are doing a lot to repair that damage though, they certainly seem to have been growing in popularity for a good few years, but probably not at the rate they would like.

Paul we already know what you believe on this topic, so don't abandon your convictions now, it's just too out of character, unless you really have re-evaluated your standing.

 

[bad_boy_racer]

Thanks for that history lesson, very helpful, but leads me to believe that the Liberals must have has some very poor leaders during the early part of the last century to have lost so much ground to the Labour and Tory parties. I think the LibDems are doing a lot to repair that damage though, they certainly seem to have been growing in popularity for a good few years, but probably not at the rate they would like.

Yeah you are pretty much correct. It was also in part due to the war/s. But after Gladstone there was never another really eminent leader for them. It wasn't so much that the next leaders were incompentent, it's more that the Labour party emergered from the crumbling Liberal party, due mostly to Gladstone being "the People's William" and making the Liberals the party mainly for the masses - which at that time was the working/lower classes - which the Labour party came from. Those good leaders who founded the Labour party began their political carrear in the latter part of the century and then became dissilisioned with the Liberal party's policies as they weren't socialist enough for them and therefore broke away - leaving the Liberals with not a whole lot...