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Technical ELD Unavailable etc, where's the brake switch?

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Technical ELD Unavailable etc, where's the brake switch?

H

Haptron

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Jun 20, 2024
Messages
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Location
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Hi all. I've had the issue with ABS, ELD, Hill Hold etc all unavailable. Came on randomly whilst driving. I wanted to check the brake switch as others have suggested but when looking in the footwell I can't see it anywhere, can anyone help with photos or a guide on where it is? Is it the same as other fiats? Can't seem to find any video proof of where to go.
Alternatively other things to check for this issue.
Are things different because it's the 4x4 twinair?

Thanks.
 
Model
4x4 Twin Air
Year
2013
Fiat cheated a bit when making RHD cars - they left all the mechanicals for the LHD in place and just moved the bits they had to (steering, pedals etc). For the brake pedal there is a bar connecting it at the top to where it would be if you had a LHD car - the switch is in the LHD position! I don't have any pictures, but if you look for how it's done on a LHD car, that's the part you need to get to.
 
IanWalrus said:
Fiat cheated a bit when making RHD cars - they left all the mechanicals for the LHD in place and just moved the bits they had to (steering, pedals etc). For the brake pedal there is a bar connecting it at the top to where it would be if you had a LHD car - the switch is in the LHD position! I don't have any pictures, but if you look for how it's done on a LHD car, that's the part you need to get to.
Click to expand...
Brilliant, thanks for this, I’ve found the part. Unfortunately it doesn’t match with what was shown online as a replacement. Reseating this hasn't fixed the issue, may have to get a new battery unless there's other ideas?
 
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Haptron said:
Brilliant, thanks for this, I’ve found the part. Unfortunately it doesn’t match with what was shown online as a replacement. Reseating this hasn't fixed the issue, may have to get a new battery unless there's other ideas?
Click to expand...
Definitely start with a new battery. As mentioned in various previous posts, lower than expected battery voltage leads to all sorts of wrong error message: the first to show are always ELD, hill hold and related ABS warnings. Stop/start will also not be working.
 
Haptron said:
Brilliant, thanks for this, I’ve found the part. Unfortunately it doesn’t match with what was shown online as a replacement. Reseating this hasn't fixed the issue, may have to get a new battery unless there's other ideas?
Click to expand...
Yep; start with the battery! Guessing that your stop/start hasn't worked for a while either?
 
Error on the dash

Means a fault has been detected

Why not start with finding out what which module the code is stored in and what the code was

Just curious, if you press the ELD button do you still get the engage and disengaged message, what ever the results I don't think it gets you any further forward

You can't read the codes with an engine scanner, for this the code is likely to be stored in the body computer or ABS module, you need multiECUscan, Delphi, WOW or similar

Without somewhere to start you will be chunking parts at the problem, you my get lucky and hit the correct solution 1st time but it soon gets expensive if you keep missing


ABS, ELD, Hill Hold all share the brakes in common
An intermittent brake switch common

Start stop is common and probably not related

ABS unavailable needs sorting ASAP, it's safety critical
 
koalar said:
ABS, ELD, Hill Hold all share the brakes in common
An intermittent brake switch common

Start stop is common and probably not related

ABS unavailable needs sorting ASAP, it's safety critical
Click to expand...
All of which are related to low battery volts too in my experience; start there.

The ABS error relates to the ABS pump being told of inadequate volts most likely. HOWEVER, it is a safety function (perhaps rather than critical - a driver aid per se) and should not be ignored if a new (or charged and charging - alternator ok?) battery does not resolve the issue.
 
Panda IIs said:
All of which are related to low battery volts too in my experience; start there.

The ABS error relates to the ABS pump being told of inadequate volts most likely. HOWEVER, it is a safety function (perhaps rather than critical - a driver aid per se) and should not be ignored if a new (or charged and charging - alternator ok?) battery does not resolve the issue.
Click to expand...
Could be anything which is why you read the code

It is critical, no ABS, no electronic brake distribution

Hit the brakes hard will cause the rear to lock up and the car to swap ends


Fiat advise is to drive it carefully to a dealer
 
koalar said:
Error on the dash

Means a fault has been detected

Why not start with finding out what which module the code is stored in and what the code was

Just curious, if you press the ELD button do you still get the engage and disengaged message, what ever the results I don't think it gets you any further forward

You can't read the codes with an engine scanner, for this the code is likely to be stored in the body computer or ABS module, you need multiECUscan, Delphi, WOW or similar

Without somewhere to start you will be chunking parts at the problem, you my get lucky and hit the correct solution 1st time but it soon gets expensive if you keep missing


ABS, ELD, Hill Hold all share the brakes in common
An intermittent brake switch common

Start stop is common and probably not related

ABS unavailable needs sorting ASAP, it's safety critical
Click to expand...
Struggling to understand a lot of what you’re meaning here. What sort of scanner would I need to read these codes?
It’s not the brake switch so battery seems mostly likely and easiest thing to try next.
 
koalar said:
Could be anything which is why you read the code

It is critical, no ABS, no electronic brake distribution

Hit the brakes hard will cause the rear to lock up and the car to swap ends


Fiat advise is to drive it carefully to a dealer
Click to expand...
Ah, like cars used to do? My point is that the brakes still work (ABS a driver aid), you just need to know how to drive without the driver aids, I don't believe that there is no front/rear distribution without ABS functionality - that would seem a little reckless by the manufacturers? If that were the case I would expect the car just not to start but happy to be proven wrong!
 
Panda IIs said:
Ah, like cars used to do? My point is that the brakes still work (ABS a driver aid), you just need to know how to drive without the driver aids, I don't believe that there is no front/rear distribution without ABS functionality - that would seem a little reckless by the manufacturers? If that were the case I would expect the car just not to start but happy to be proven wrong!
Click to expand...
Cars use electronic brake distribution to stop the rear brakes locking up

The older 2003 1.1 active with no ABS have a brake proportional valve added to to rear line

Now it's all controlled by the one unit

EBD is nothing to do with driver aids, it stops the car from spearing off backwards due to too much rear brake bias


Screenshot_20240624-150358.png
 
Last edited:
koalar said:
Cars use electronic brake distribution to stop the rear brakes locking up

The older 2003 1.1 active with no ABS have a brake proportional valve added to to rear line

Now it's all controlled by the one unit

EBD is nothing to do with driver aids, it stops the car from spearing off backwards due to too much rear back bias


View attachment 446990
Click to expand...
Yes I understand that but my point was that surely the default brake distribution will still favour the front by (mechanical) design?
 
Haptron said:
Struggling to understand a lot of what you’re meaning here. What sort of scanner would I need to read these codes?
It’s not the brake switch so battery seems mostly likely and easiest thing to try next.
Click to expand...
A cheap generic OBD scanner normally only connects the the engine ECU and only reports engine codes

Cars today's cars have several computers

Body
Dash
Engine
Brakes
Steering
Climate control
And so on



A more professional OBD scanner will connect to all or most of these modules


I use Delphi DS150E with a multiplexer and
MultiECUscan with a switched kkl cable


Maybe someone's nearby that can help you read the codes I am near Crewe

Or a garage

Or you can purchase the equipment yourself,

It's kind of up to you, if you intend to do your own repairs in future and so on
 
If the battery is causing the problem

The voltage will normally be close to 6V while cranking

A scan tool even a cheap one will tell you this by graphing the voltage

And the error comes up on as the car is turned on

Seeing as it coming on randomly while driving, it's unlikely, but not impossible


Worth cleaning the battery terminals, make sure they are tight, check the earth strap under the battery


Battery will, probably be the cause of the stop start though
 
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