Technical Ducato powers up but won’t crank

[Fedupoffiats]

Help needed.

I went out to my 2007 3.0 Ducato just before Christmas as I’d got a recovery to do and the dash lights came on but it did absolutely nothing when I turned the key.

I tested the battery. 12.9 volts.

I checked earth straps. We’re a little dirty but nothing major. Cleaned them up and put them back….. Nothing.

Bought a new battery and fitted it…. Nothing.

Bought a new starter motor and fitted it…. Nothing.

Tested continuity of earth straps just to be sure and they were fine but I’ve added another earth strap to the battery terminal just because.

I added an earth strap directly from the negative terminal on the starter motor to the body of the truck and when I turned the key, I did get a click from the starter at that point. It blew the fuse in the little fuse box thingy in the battery compartment so I’ve changed that and took the earth strap I added off the starter.


I don’t get it!! I have done thousands of miles in this truck and it was working fine the day before.

I have tested that there is a decent connection on the starter terminals from the battery and the brown/black wire from the key switch to the starter motor is live when the key turns so I assume the switch is ok.

Immobiliser light some on and goes off and as far as I can see/hear all the relays click/work when I turn the key.

I’ve put it in gear and rocked it back and forth in case the starter was stuck.

I feel like I’ve tried everything but is there something I’m missing?

My head is fried now…….. I need to get some help!

 

[Greasytrucker]

Does it turn over if you arc the starter with a screwdriver? (Make sure it’s out of gear if you do try)

 

[bugsymike]

As @Greasytrucker says and assuming that works, take off the little wire at the starter solenoid and insulate so no shorting and no back feed to anywhere else and put a long wire to that connection on the starter, then test with ignition off putting the other end gently across the battery positive/live.
Assuming no wires got shorted when fitting new starter, it should then try to turn the starter. If so with vehicle in neutral and ignition on, safely see if touching that thin wire to battery positive starts the vehicle.
If it doesn't then check all heavy duty wires to starter earth and live. Assuming a good quality replacement starter fitted.
If it starts and runs happily with that little temporary wire safely isolated away from live side of battery, then next I would check for power coming from the starter side of the ignition switch, assuming that good then any relays fuses etc. on route to starter, worst case scenario would be no signal from ECU, though maybe just a broken wire.
Another small point what I describe is a simple starter system, so just check there are no extra small wires at starter solenoid, you only want the one that triggers the starter.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi,
Frustrating isn't it..!

I've had similar over the years,

You've basically ruled out Lack of power, with a new Battery and Cables

Contactor in back of ignition barrel, usually get Patchy - rather than just Dead... (And you got a click worth your starter earthaddition)

Ok.. What's left..

Did you jump the old starter on the floor, just to check it Was actually dead?

Changing starters.. There is often a space collar on the main Red Power cable fixing, assembling that wrongly can make effects you are seeing.

Another Tell. Tale.. Do the dash lights dim as you attempt to crank?

 

[Fedupoffiats]

Does it turn over if you arc the starter with a screwdriver? (Make sure it’s out of gear if you do try)

Sorry forgot to mention that.

No it doesn’t. Just gives a little spark

 

[Fedupoffiats]

Hi,
Frustrating isn't it..!

I've had similar over the years,

You've basically ruled out Lack of power, with a new Battery and Cables

Contactor in back of ignition barrel, usually get Patchy - rather than just Dead... (And you got a click worth your starter earthaddition)

Ok.. What's left..

Did you jump the old starter on the floor, just to check it Was actually dead?

Changing starters.. There is often a space collar on the main Red Power cable fixing, assembling that wrongly can make effects you are seeing.

Another Tell. Tale.. Do the dash lights dim as you attempt to crank?

Hi thank you for the reply.

I tested the old starter and it works I’ve left the new one on just because it’s new.

I was going to buy a new starter switch but can’t seem to find one online. It’s a 7 pin and the only ones I can find aren’t. I’ve found a 7 pin one on Amazon but it has different plug sockets.

The connector on the power cable from the battery to the starter is like this 45 degree thing. I’ve cleaned that up as previous owner had coated it and it had attracted dirt. It’s now spotless.

When I arc the starter, I get a little spark but it doesn’t turn over.

 

[Greasytrucker]

Hi thank you for the reply.

I tested the old starter and it works I’ve left the new one on just because it’s new.

I was going to buy a new starter switch but can’t seem to find one online. It’s a 7 pin and the only ones I can find aren’t. I’ve found a 7 pin one on Amazon but it has different plug sockets.

The connector on the power cable from the battery to the starter is like this 45 degree thing. I’ve cleaned that up as previous owner had coated it and it had attracted dirt. It’s now spotless.

When I arc the starter, I get a little spark but it doesn’t turn over.

Then it sounds to me like it’s not getting enough power then as surely it’d turn over if you arc it as you’re eliminating the switch

 

[Greasytrucker]

As @varesecrazy said, do the dash lights dim when you attempt to start it?

 

[Fedupoffiats]

As @varesecrazy said, do the dash lights dim when you attempt to start it?

Hi, no. Nothing dims.

One thing I have noticed is that the earth straps get very warm

 

[Fedupoffiats]

Then it sounds to me like it’s not getting enough power then as surely it’d turn over if you arc it as you’re eliminating the switch

What could be causing the lack of power do you think?

 

[Greasytrucker]

I had a similar thing with a VW Sharan once, starter packed up but new one wouldn’t work, was just getting a little click. I cleaned the earth strap connection on body back to bare metal but still no joy. In the end I put a serrated washer in between the cable and the body and bolted it up tight and when that bit in it started. Sounds like an earth fault to me

 

[Greasytrucker]

Mine was sparking at the earth strap before i put the washer in

 

[varesecrazy]

What could be causing the lack of power do you think?

Not making a circuit..

So Earth Black cables, (common failure) followed by the Red power cables

You say the Black are getting hot.. Sounds like they are worth changing

 

[Fedupoffiats]

I’ve tested the earth cable from the top of the gearbox to the frame and it’s getting good continuity.

I’ve added a second earth strap from the battery to the frame just for good measure.

The starter motor is getting 11.9v from the live (direct from battery)

 

[Fedupoffiats]

Mine was sparking at the earth strap before i put the washer in

I’ve used sandpaper to clean the connections and tested the continuity and it’s showing up on the multimeter as 0.03 so decent connection on the earth.

 

[varesecrazy]

And you've rolled the engine over, so the starter definitely has a chance of cranking?

Had a saga on here with a seized alternator causing a Non. Start

 

[Fedupoffiats]

And you've rolled the engine over, so the starter definitely has a chance of cranking?

Had a saga on here with a seized alternator causing a Non. Start

Yeah I’ve rolled/rocked the truck to make sure the engine will turn over.

I had a Mito with a seized alternator causing a none start but that did turn over whereas the truck doesn’t seem to want to engage the starter.

It literally just does nothing when turning the key. No lights dimming and since I removed the extra earth strap I added from the starter to the frame the starter doesn’t even click now

 

[Greasytrucker]

You may have and I’ve missed it but have you tried running a temporary earth from the starter to a different earth so for instance a jump lead from starter earth to battery earth? Clutching at straws now tbh!

 

[GettinBetter]

Just my tuppence worth...

Continuity measured by DMM is not the same as continuity under load. (Anyone familiar with V=IxR will know this)

No Connection is 'OK' unless you've taken it off and checked it for cleanliness. In marine applications I've had lovely clean chassis terminal connections with 12+ volts and negliable resistance measured with DMM, only to find when the shiny chrome bolt is removed the thread is completely coated in corrosion. Once cleaned and replaced worked fine. This may be happening in several places to differing degrees, but collectively add to prevent fault free starting.

In other situations the cables 'crimped' connection looks fine on the outside once cleaned but the corrosion has oxidised the inside mating faces and created a resitive barrier between the wire strands and the terminal fitting. (I've yet to see this in a soldered connection).

Connections are the usually the easiest checks, with normally the cheapest remedies....

Just saying..

 

[Communicator]

Help needed.

I went out to my 2007 3.0 Ducato just before Christmas as I’d got a recovery to do and the dash lights came on but it did absolutely nothing when I turned the key.

I tested the battery. 12.9 volts.

I checked earth straps. We’re a little dirty but nothing major. Cleaned them up and put them back….. Nothing.

Bought a new battery and fitted it…. Nothing.

Bought a new starter motor and fitted it…. Nothing.

Tested continuity of earth straps just to be sure and they were fine but I’ve added another earth strap to the battery terminal just because.

I added an earth strap directly from the negative terminal on the starter motor to the body of the truck and when I turned the key, I did get a click from the starter at that point. It blew the fuse in the little fuse box thingy in the battery compartment so I’ve changed that and took the earth strap I added off the starter.

I am not aware of earth terminals on starter motors. Typically they are earthed via the fixing bolts.
It seems possible that in the confusion, you have mistakenly earthed the motor terminal on the contactor. This would explain blowing the fuse at the battery positive. (Possibly a 150A mega fuse.)

I don’t get it!! I have done thousands of miles in this truck and it was working fine the day before.

I have tested that there is a decent connection on the starter terminals from the battery and the brown/black wire from the key switch to the starter motor is live when the key turns so I assume the switch is ok.

Immobiliser light some on and goes off and as far as I can see/hear all the relays click/work when I turn the key.

I’ve put it in gear and rocked it back and forth in case the starter was stuck.

I feel like I’ve tried everything but is there something I’m missing?

My head is fried now…….. I need to get some help!

Hi, no. Nothing dims.

One thing I have noticed is that the earth straps get very warm

If the earth strap is getting warm, it is a sign that it is failing. Replace. (One former fleet operator (Euroserve) has suggested replacing every four years.

Just my tuppence worth...

Continuity measured by DMM is not the same as continuity under load. (Anyone familiar with V=IxR will know this)

The resistance of the earth strap cannot be measured with a DMM. You can check for continuity, but will only be measuring meter lead resistance.

No Connection is 'OK' unless you've taken it off and checked it for cleanliness. In marine applications I've had lovely clean chassis terminal connections with 12+ volts and negliable resistance measured with DMM, only to find when the shiny chrome bolt is removed the thread is completely coated in corrosion. Once cleaned and replaced worked fine. This may be happening in several places to differing degrees, but collectively add to prevent fault free starting.

In other situations the cables 'crimped' connection looks fine on the outside once cleaned but the corrosion has oxidised the inside mating faces and created a resitive barrier between the wire strands and the terminal fitting. (I've yet to see this in a soldered connection).

I agree. I also have read of internal corrosion in these earth straps. See attached photo of failing strap.

Connections are the usually the easiest checks, with normally the cheapest remedies....

Again I agree.

Just saying..

I am not familiar with the jump points on the x250, but is it possible to attach a jump lead between battery negative, and an engine lifting lug?

I can only conclude by suggesting again, that the earth strap is changed.

I have experienced a starter motor fail abruptly, that is without warning. OK starting from cold at home, but not working for return journey after about 20 miles. Suspected battery as that was old, but presumably it was the starter brushes that had expired.