General Ducato 3.0 multijet 160 comformatic fix selespeed magnetti

[MSjoberg]

Sorry yes I meant to put accumulator mate and no idea on why

The pressure accumulator is filled with nitrogen (24 bar @20 Deg C when new) which is kept separated from the hydraulic oil by a membrane. If the membrane breaks, there will be immediate problems i.e. the pump will start running most of the time which kills the pump motor pretty soon. So it's good to replace the accumulator before this happens. I have seen 10 years recommended as maximum exchange interval (also seen shorter). There is also a slow deterioration of the accumulator performance due to nitrogen leakage through the membrane and/or the housing. This leads to more frequent pump starts and eventually the same problem. One can check the remaining fill pressure by direct or indirect methods. A direct method is to switch ignition on and let the system power up, then remove the pump fuse or relay and monitor the pressure via MES. It may take a while so a battery charger probably needs to be connected during the test. When the nitrogen has pressed all the oil out of the accumulator there is a sudden drop in system pressure, and the point where this happens equals the current fill pressure in the accu.

Example:

I have done this test a couple of times on my Ducato and got these results:

I.e. in May this year it had lost 6,3% of its nominal capacity.

 

[Seanwinder22]

The pressure accumulator is filled with nitrogen (24 bar @20 Deg C when new) which is kept separated from the hydraulic oil by a membrane. If the membrane breaks, there will be immediate problems i.e. the pump will start running most of the time which kills the pump motor pretty soon. So it's good to replace the accumulator before this happens. I have seen 10 years recommended as maximum exchange interval (also seen shorter). There is also a slow deterioration of the accumulator performance due to nitrogen leakage through the membrane and/or the housing. This leads to more frequent pump starts and eventually the same problem. One can check the remaining fill pressure by direct or indirect methods. A direct method is to switch ignition on and let the system power up, then remove the pump fuse or relay and monitor the pressure via MES. It may take a while so a battery charger probably needs to be connected during the test. When the nitrogen has pressed all the oil out of the accumulator there is a sudden drop in system pressure, and the point where this happens equals the current fill pressure in the accu.

Example:

View attachment 457308

I have done this test a couple of times on my Ducato and got these results:

View attachment 457309
I.e. in May this year it had lost 6,3% of its nominal capacity.

Excellent advice and ideas
When I changed the transmission fluid I didn’t use mes
I did it the way you mentioned
I didn’t activate the door or ignition and pulled fuse left it 24hour
I then drained reservoir and used new cs speed

So in mes what settings do I go to and look at this data

 

[Seanwinder22]

Ok now I get what you mean
Once you pull the fuse you look in parameters and check the pressure after depressurisation which in return lets you know if them accumulator is good

 

[MSjoberg]

You start with the system pressurized, pull the fuse or relay and then record the pressure (select pressure in Parameters, then start graph) and monitor until it drops suddenly to zero. Observe the last pressures before this drop in the graph, or save the data to file and check there.
There will be alarm(s) when the pressure has fallen below the pump start threshold and the pump doesn’t start but that has not created any problems in my tests.
You can also accelerate the process a little by doing some gear changes it the beginning.

 

[deejays]

The pressure accumulator is filled with nitrogen (24 bar @20 Deg C when new) which is kept separated from the hydraulic oil by a membrane. If the membrane breaks, there will be immediate problems i.e. the pump will start running most of the time which kills the pump motor pretty soon. So it's good to replace the accumulator before this happens. I have seen 10 years recommended as maximum exchange interval (also seen shorter). There is also a slow deterioration of the accumulator performance due to nitrogen leakage through the membrane and/or the housing. This leads to more frequent pump starts and eventually the same problem. One can check the remaining fill pressure by direct or indirect methods. A direct method is to switch ignition on and let the system power up, then remove the pump fuse or relay and monitor the pressure via MES. It may take a while so a battery charger probably needs to be connected during the test. When the nitrogen has pressed all the oil out of the accumulator there is a sudden drop in system pressure, and the point where this happens equals the current fill pressure in the accu.

Example:

View attachment 457308

I have done this test a couple of times on my Ducato and got these results:

View attachment 457309
I.e. in May this year it had lost 6,3% of its nominal capacity.

Brilliant @MSjoberg Obvious and simple, but you have to think about it first - and you did that! Thank you so much for sharing.

 

[deejays]

The pressure accumulator is filled with nitrogen (24 bar @20 Deg C when new) which is kept separated from the hydraulic oil by a membrane. If the membrane breaks, there will be immediate problems i.e. the pump will start running most of the time which kills the pump motor pretty soon. So it's good to replace the accumulator before this happens. I have seen 10 years recommended as maximum exchange interval (also seen shorter). There is also a slow deterioration of the accumulator performance due to nitrogen leakage through the membrane and/or the housing. This leads to more frequent pump starts and eventually the same problem. One can check the remaining fill pressure by direct or indirect methods. A direct method is to switch ignition on and let the system power up, then remove the pump fuse or relay and monitor the pressure via MES. It may take a while so a battery charger probably needs to be connected during the test. When the nitrogen has pressed all the oil out of the accumulator there is a sudden drop in system pressure, and the point where this happens equals the current fill pressure in the accu.

Example:

View attachment 457308

I have done this test a couple of times on my Ducato and got these results:

View attachment 457309
I.e. in May this year it had lost 6,3% of its nominal capacity.

Hi @MSjoberg , you have inspired me to check mine. The following graph straight from MES, Temp 22C. It would seem the bleed down time is over twice as long.

 

[MSjoberg]

Yes the time can vary a lot from one pump to another. If the pump is very ”tight” the test duration might be unreasonably long. I would like my pump to be a little bit tighter, that would reduce the number of pump starts needed just to compensate for the leakage.

 

[Seanwinder22]

Hi @MSjoberg , you have inspired me to check mine. The following graph straight from MES, Temp 22C. It would seem the bleed down time is over twice as long.View attachment 457337

How long did it take mate to pressurise and get the data ?
So you go on mes to adjustments and depressurise and execute
Then what do you do ? Wait for it to finish then pull the fuse ?
I’m going to try it myself next couple of days

 

[Seanwinder22]

Sorry to change topic but noticed in mes when doing fan 1 and fan 2 command I don’t get no fan 1 but 2 comes on
When I pressed activate fan 1 I hear the relay in the fuse box clicking
Black 50 amp one
I did have one spare so changed and nothing just clicking again

So next steps I took the harness from fan 2 and tried on fan 1 because that’s obviously got power
But nothing again fan 1 won’t work
Air con works but does not activate fan 1 has it should
So could this be the barrel resistor that slots in the rad ? Or the relay on top of radiator maybe
It’s very strange one works and one doesn’t
And fuses are fine

Only thing I did not check was use multimeter

 

[Seanwinder22]

Sorry to change topic but noticed in mes when doing fan 1 and fan 2 command I don’t get no fan 1 but 2 comes on
When I pressed activate fan 1 I hear the relay in the fuse box clicking
Black 50 amp one
I did have one spare so changed and nothing just clicking again

So next steps I took the harness from fan 2 and tried on fan 1 because that’s obviously got power
But nothing again fan 1 won’t work
Air con works but does not activate fan 1 has it should
So could this be the barrel resistor that slots in the rad ? Or the relay on top of radiator maybe
It’s very strange one works and one doesn’t
And fuses are fine

Only thing I did not check was use multimeter

Am I right each fan has a relay
Fan 2 is in the fuse box and fan 1 is the relay at the top left side rad near headlight screwed to the radiator plastic near the resistor?

 

[deejays]

Yes the time can vary a lot from one pump to another. If the pump is very ”tight” the test duration might be unreasonably long. I would like my pump to be a little bit tighter, that would reduce the number of pump starts needed just to compensate for the leakage.

The pump may have a bit of leakage (I assume it has a one way valve incorporated), but I would think the main leakage would be of the piston seals of the control solenoids.

 

[deejays]

How long did it take mate to pressurise and get the data ?
So you go on mes to adjustments and depressurise and execute
Then what do you do ? Wait for it to finish then pull the fuse ?
I’m going to try it myself next couple of days

Hi @Seanwinder22 The method is to first begin recording in MES the hydraulic pressure. Then simply pull the pump fuse. Depending on leak rate it will take some time to bleed down fully - in my case it was 3,090 seconds or approx. 52 minutes. The pressure will be at normal operating pressure to begin with as the ignition will be on. Pulling the fuse stops the pump from restarting. Be aware that a fault code will be triggered during the test when the pump command comes on. That is no problem and can be cleared later after completion of the test. To record the graph, you need to select the hydraulic pressure in "parameters", and then select "graph", the select "Start". This will begin the recording of live data in graphical form. Then just sit and observe. It will take considerable time to bleed down. When it drops to zero, you then select "Stop". The data will be saved in MES files. This is how you use MES for recording/capturing and live data. Then, just replace the fuse and clear the fault that was triggered during the test. Hope this helps. Cheers and Merry Christmas!

 

[Seanwinder22]

Thanks for posting this. After the festivities we could post our values and compare....

Hi again this would really help if you can show me just one thing in parameters that concerns me

Gearbox/clutch self-calibration

What does it say in yours please ?
Mine says correct but only after doing calibration or end of line
If I connect now and go check in parameters it says not performed just wondering if this is normal until you carry out a calibration every time
I was under the impression this should correct itself has a self calibration every time you turn the ignition on
But in my parameters has mentioned this will change from not performed to correct after I do the calibration myself
Very strange
So if that’s the case something if wrong

 

[jackwhoo]

Sorry to change topic but noticed in mes when doing fan 1 and fan 2 command I don’t get no fan 1 but 2 comes on
When I pressed activate fan 1 I hear the relay in the fuse box clicking
Black 50 amp one
I did have one spare so changed and nothing just clicking again

So next steps I took the harness from fan 2 and tried on fan 1 because that’s obviously got power
But nothing again fan 1 won’t work
Air con works but does not activate fan 1 has it should
So could this be the barrel resistor that slots in the rad ? Or the relay on top of radiator maybe
It’s very strange one works and one doesn’t
And fuses are fine

Only thing I did not check was use multimeter

Hi ,
A new thread wold be good for this.

You have posted some good stuff on comfortmatic it would be a shame to clutter it up thread with non - related things.

Cheers
J

 

[Seanwinder22]

Hi ,
A new thread wold be good for this.

You have posted some good stuff on comfortmatic it would be a shame to clutter it up thread with non - related things.

Cheers
J

Yes I agree actually I couldn’t delete it no option
I actually sorted this minute after posting

 

[Seanwinder22]

Ok so I has mentioned I managed to fix every issue I was faced with
Even the last codes went after changing the clutch position sensor
So because so much work was carried out from clutch drain and bleeding to sensors and harness repair
My last job was to carry out adjustments in multiecuscan which all worked
After reading the comfortmatic files by Fiat which explain very clearly which adjustment to change and for what purposes
I needed clutch drain
Delete statistical data and Production/Service final calibration which did the trick but noticed clutch degradation didn’t change neither did some parameters
So I was told to carry out not just the clutch reset known has kiss point but also gear box reset or tcu reset Which was Clutch replacement/ Electropump replacement/ Actuator base adjustment/ which in turn reset parameters to 0 and adjusts engaged positions
Here’s a screenshot of my parameters now which have changed especially clutch degradation index from 4025 to 2000
The only thing that has not reset is the clutch engaging problem counter 18 which I’m thinking to reset every parameter in gear box you need to execute the Reset self-learned functions
I’m guessing delete statistical data is gearbox parameter counts and Reset self-learned functions is clutch counting
It doesn’t really mention this in the fiat download

 

[MSjoberg]

Interesting. Strange though that the Clutch Degradation Index has changed. Executing these procedures can’t make the clutch plate less worn than than it it was before I would assume?

 

[Seanwinder22]

Interesting. Strange though that the Clutch Degradation Index has changed. Executing these procedures can’t make the clutch plate less worn than than it it was before I would assume?

oh yes mate I’ve read lots of the Alfa forums the degradation index does change even from end of line calibration

 

[Seanwinder22]

Ok so been for a drive letting the gearbox relearn etc drive brilliantly didn’t feel any issues at all very smooth
BUT….. when home parked up checking data in parameters my heart sunk because now I can see a new clutch kit will definitely be needed
What I think the issue is here is the slave
Can anyone see from this screenshot while sat in neutral engine started what issues I’m seeing that should be on 0
It’s intermittent it’s not all that time
I tried replicating it but only did it twice

 

[Seanwinder22]

ok so the guy who works on this selespeed for a living tells me I’m overthinking things leave it alone
He says my engine temps are only 56 so everything has not expanded yet so wait until at least 80 to carry out tests
If the clutch slips or a delay when putting in gear which it isn’t then everything is good
So that’s that
When you experience an issue like this it’s normal to want to get it spot on
A issue like this is very dangerous losing no gears available especially on the motorway high speeds or just braking down and getting it home
So I’ll admit the issue have taken away that feeling I used to get
Now I just think I hope this gearbox doesn’t brake down and listens for that horrible no gears beep