Technical Ducato 230 2.8 i d td year 2000

[peter judy]

Does anyone know where I can find the relay that operates the radiater fans. It keeps blowing a 20a fuse over the battery once it gets up to temperature. I tested the fans and both run ok, the fault seems to be in wiring from fuse via relay to fans.

 

[Communicator]

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
The x230 has several relays behind the LH lower dash panel. Perhaps these include the fan relays.
I am wondering about the fuse rating of 20A. Is this as marked next to the fuse, or in vehicle handbook? On my x244 2.8jtd, both fans are fused separately at 30A.

Please help others by posting what you discover.

 

[Madmike]

Does anyone know where I can find the relay that operates the radiater fans. It keeps blowing a 20a fuse over the battery once it gets up to temperature. I tested the fans and both run ok, the fault seems to be in wiring from fuse via relay to fans.

Hi
I have literally just got my one sorted with a cooling fan issue but it was the radiator thermo switch had failed
Mine is the 2.8 and it's also a 2000, but not the turbo version. I'm assuming they are very similar
When you open the bonnet, look on the back of the radiator fans and you should see a small plastic box. The relays are inside of this
I have a photo of it in my recent post regarding the issues I was having

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

As Communicator implies, are you sure that the correct fuse rating in in place ? Radiator fans are high power devices and will draw typically 20 Amps when new, so a 30 Amp fuse for each fan would be appropriate. I would be surprised if both fans are run from the same fuse, but unfortunately cannot find an appropriate schematic at the moment. Do you have a maker's handbook ?

The other thing I would note is that fan motors (as with any DC motor) draw a current which rises the greater the mechanical loading. Most of the load is due to the work the fan blades are doing to shift air, which is fairly predictable. However, if the bearings are worn out or the lubricant has dried out there will be extra friction which will increase the load and push up the current.

The state of the blown fuse sometimes gives a clue as to why it "died". A small long term overload will give a small clean break. A short circuit from a wiring fault will cause a very high current with an immediate and more impressive "blow" with a larger break and discolouration from the molten metal. Your fault sounds more like the first, hence the query about rating.

If you can beg or borrow a DC clamp type ammeter you could measure the fuse current more accurately.

A relay is very unlikely to be the cause of excess current.

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

After more digging, I remembered that this was discussed just over a year ago. It's hard to find definitive information about the radiator fans for the X230, because Fiat seems to have used several variants over the years and some of the published data has mistakes.

I attach an updated diagram I drew, which is my best guess at how things are arranged for the two fan setup. There are three states depending on the radiator temperature sensed by the double thermostatic switch:

No Fans
Fan 1 on low speed using a ballast resistor
Fan 1 on high speed (ballast resistor shorted out by relay), Plus Fan 2

I believe the 3 relays are in a plastic housing on or near the radiator, and near the high power ballast resistor.

The individual fuses for Fan 1 and Fan 2 (Rated at something like 30 or 50 Amps, can't be sure) are on the offside inner wing above the battery.

I hope this helps you, but don't take it as gospel because your van may differ in detail !

 

[peter judy]

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
The x230 has several relays behind the LH lower dash panel. Perhaps these include the fan relays.
I am wondering about the fuse rating of 20A. Is this as marked next to the fuse, or in vehicle handbook? On my x244 2.8jtd, both fans are fused separately at 30A.

Please help others by posting what you discover.

Hi Thanks for the quick response
the 20a fuse is located just above the battery in a small block that holds 3 fuses a 50a the offending 20a and a 2a.
I only thought it must be to do with the radiator fans as after replacing the fuse and switching on lights heater radio and everything else it stayed ok untile the engine got up to temperature and only then blew.
i have at present only put a spare battery direct onto each fan motor which both ran ok.

Thanks

 

[peter judy]

Hi

As Communicator implies, are you sure that the correct fuse rating in in place ? Radiator fans are high power devices and will draw typically 20 Amps when new, so a 30 Amp fuse for each fan would be appropriate. I would be surprised if both fans are run from the same fuse, but unfortunately cannot find an appropriate schematic at the moment. Do you have a maker's handbook ?

The other thing I would note is that fan motors (as with any DC motor) draw a current which rises the greater the mechanical loading. Most of the load is due to the work the fan blades are doing to shift air, which is fairly predictable. However, if the bearings are worn out or the lubricant has dried out there will be extra friction which will increase the load and push up the current.

The state of the blown fuse sometimes gives a clue as to why it "died". A small long term overload will give a small clean break. A short circuit from a wiring fault will cause a very high current with an immediate and more impressive "blow" with a larger break and discolouration from the molten metal. Your fault sounds more like the first, hence the query about rating.

If you can beg or borrow a DC clamp type ammeter you could measure the fuse current more accurately.

A relay is very unlikely to be the cause of excess current.

Hi Antony489

Thanks for the advice but i proved it was not the fans as i replaced the fuse and ran to temp with the fan plugs disconected and on reaching temp it still blew fuse.

 

[peter judy]

Hi

After more digging, I remembered that this was discussed just over a year ago. It's hard to find definitive information about the radiator fans for the X230, because Fiat seems to have used several variants over the years and some of the published data has mistakes.

I attach an updated diagram I drew, which is my best guess at how things are arranged for the two fan setup. There are three states depending on the radiator temperature sensed by the double thermostatic switch:

No Fans
Fan 1 on low speed using a ballast resistor
Fan 1 on high speed (ballast resistor shorted out by relay), Plus Fan 2

I believe the 3 relays are in a plastic housing on or near the radiator, and near the high power ballast resistor.

The individual fuses for Fan 1 and Fan 2 (Rated at something like 30 or 50 Amps, can't be sure) are on the offside inner wing above the battery.

I hope this helps you, but don't take it as gospel because your van may differ in detail !

Hi Anthony489
Thanks for the information here i do not have any wiring information so will investigate based on your information.
I think my next step will be to disconnect the thermal switch on the radiator and see if the wiring to it or from it are to earth.
i will then take a look in the boxes on the back of fans and also the relays under the dash.
when i find something i will report what.

Reguards peter

 

[Communicator]

Hi Thanks for the quick response
the 20a fuse is located just above the battery in a small block that holds 3 fuses a 50a the offending 20a and a 2a.
I only thought it must be to do with the radiator fans as after replacing the fuse and switching on lights heater radio and everything else it stayed ok untile the engine got up to temperature and only then blew.
i have at present only put a spare battery direct onto each fan motor which both ran ok.

Thanks

Hi Peter,
Is there any possibility that the wiring has been "messed about", perhaps by a former owner?
My reason for asking is that your description of a fusebox near the battery brought to mind that used on some motorhome conversions, 50A fuse for starter battery to split charge relay, 20A fuse for fridge, and 2A for D+ to fridge and split charge relay coils.The fact that the fuse does not blow until engine is hot would seem to discount this, but I thought it worth mentioning. Perhaps the 50A fuse is for for the second fan, but the rating seems too high. Are the fuses standard blade type? My memory suggests 40A is max rating for standard blade. Higher ratings being maxi blade type.
I previously owned a Talbot Express (Peugeot J5). The dual contact thermostat on the RHS of the radiator, controlled the negative side of the fan relay coils, while the ignition switch controlled the positive side. I had an official Peugeot workshop manual, but it did not include wiring diagrams.

 

[airwave]

Does anyone know where I can find the relay that operates the radiater fans. It keeps blowing a 20a fuse over the battery once it gets up to temperature. I tested the fans and both run ok, the fault seems to be in wiring from fuse via relay to fans.

You know , it's kinda strange , but i get the impression from your post , that your fan is running directly from the time you start the motor , is that what's happening here ? .
Because if it is , the fuse is actually doing its job . Yes you do have a problem , but it's not with the fuse ! . In normal use , the fans on a 2.8 should be on standby , only operating when needed . They are not designed to be run continuously . They should cut in at a certain temperature , from memory around the 90 mark , certainly not from cold , even with the ambient temperatures we are having now . ????

 

[peter judy]

Hi
I have literally just got my one sorted with a cooling fan issue but it was the radiator thermo switch had failed
Mine is the 2.8 and it's also a 2000, but not the turbo version. I'm assuming they are very similar
When you open the bonnet, look on the back of the radiator fans and you should see a small plastic box. The relays are inside of this
I have a photo of it in my recent post regarding the issues I was having

Hi Madmike
Thanks for the help i found the relay box just underneath the air hoses and as you said fixed to the back of the radiator.
after checking fuse holders over the battery and fuses in the glove compartment and the relays, they all looked good.
The 20a fuse i thought was a problem was not for the radiator fans that is from 2 of 50a fuses again over the battery and also a relay control fuse in the glove box. It was as you suggested the radiator thermal switch which has 2 switches ( three wires) one direct and one via a resistor for speed control.
The switch was shorted to earth causing the problem.
Thanks for your advice it did help as i could not find the relays which were hidden under the hoses.

Peter judy