Technical ducacto 2.8 maxi. 55 plate starting problem

[jockdagz]

hey guys thanks for having me!
got a problem with my van ducacto 2.8 maxi. 55 plate.
right it will turn over no problem at all but no way will it start! its had a new starter new clutch complete. new crank senser new fuel fillter.heres the thing it will start straight away when you bump start it,will run all day no problems at all.untill you stop her then she will not start at all on the key.its been to fiat and put on machine,they say it might be fuel pump problems..but wont tell me anything at all as you know they want the work.thing is the van goes so well no smoke no missing,even fully loaded not a murmer from it. but every time you have to bump start it.even hot or cold.
been on machine no faults found no crank light on nothing
so pissing me off right now
any ideas guys..big thank you in advance......oh yea has it got solid flywheel or duel mass fly wheel cheers :worship:

 

[John C S]

Reference the flywheel, I asked the same thing when I had a problem with vibration.

They've got a solid flywheel.

Hope you get the other issue sorted

 

[jockdagz]

Reference the flywheel, I asked the same thing when I had a problem with vibration.

They've got a solid flywheel.

Hope you get the other issue sorted

cheers for that m8

 

[FreeSpirit]

Hi
You could try this post as he had similar problem but his started on the second attempt & has found the cause at least on his Ducato, just might be the same on yours with luck - :worship: wouldn't hurt to check if it proves successful - put it up here.
Although the starting on bump seems strange ????
https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/23...to-2-8jtd-2004-but-starts-second-attempt.html
Cheers

 

[jockdagz]

quick update, there is a new starter fitted to van like i said..took it out today and put it back in,and the van started,,for a few times then went back to not starting..so took starter out again and its been starting most of the day...its new and does turn the engine over..
been told there is 2 types for van a 2.2kw and a 2.5kw.so going to get replacment again

 

[corkman]

Before you go buying a new starter ..

ECU will not inject until the pressure in the rail reaches 100-120 bar, if you increase the rpm the pressure goes up hence why bump starting works.

Assuming your battery and starter are ok and the engine in turning over at a couple of hundred rpm. There are several possible reasons for low pressure.

First i would check is the injectors, unclip and remove the return line from each injector one at a time while the engine is running if you find one or more are flowing at a greater rate than the others that is most lightly the problem. There should be just a tiny trickle at tickover, an injector bad enough to cause starting problems will be obvious.

 

[jockdagz]

Before you go buying a new starter ..

ECU will not inject until the pressure in the rail reaches 100-120 bar, if you increase the rpm the pressure goes up hence why bump starting works.

Assuming your battery and starter are ok and the engine in turning over at a couple of hundred rpm. There are several possible reasons for low pressure.

First i would check is the injectors, unclip and remove the return line from each injector one at a time while the engine is running if you find one or more are flowing at a greater rate than the others that is most lightly the problem. There should be just a tiny trickle at tickover, an injector bad enough to cause starting problems will be obvious.

hi have had the AA out to the house and they said the pressure to the injectors is good! and that was not the problem..what i cant suss out is how can they tell the pressure just by pluging a laptop into the van.thought you would have to put some sort of meter on the fuel line to find that out..cheers for the advice. new starter has been orderd now.will update when the new one is fitted..

 

[corkman]

hi have had the AA out to the house and they said the pressure to the injectors is good! and that was not the problem..what i cant suss out is how can they tell the pressure just by pluging a laptop into the van.thought you would have to put some sort of meter on the fuel line to find that out..cheers for the advice. new starter has been orderd now.will update when the new one is fitted..

There is a pressure sensor on the rail which is how the ecu knows when to drive the injectors, adjust the pressure regulator and deactivate the third piston on the pump.

Did they check the pressure at starting or when it was running. The pressure could be perfect while running as it is regulated by the ecu. If they checked while trying and failing to start and the pressure was good then the starter is probably turning over at a satisfactory rpm and is not the problem.

The ecu is a dumb computer if it expects 120 bar to start and you're getting 118bar it won't fire the injectors so 'good' pressure may not be good enough.

If your pressure is borderline a higher torque starter may solve the problem but only temporarily.

My jtd van makes about 300bar in the first two seconds of cranking and thats only got one good injector.

 

[jockdagz]

There is a pressure sensor on the rail which is how the ecu knows when to drive the injectors, adjust the pressure regulator and deactivate the third piston on the pump.

Did they check the pressure at starting or when it was running. The pressure could be perfect while running as it is regulated by the ecu. If they checked while trying and failing to start and the pressure was good then the starter is probably turning over at a satisfactory rpm and is not the problem.

The ecu is a dumb computer if it expects 120 bar to start and you're getting 118bar it won't fire the injectors so 'good' pressure may not be good enough.

If your pressure is borderline a higher torque starter may solve the problem but only temporarily.

My jtd van makes about 300bar in the first two seconds of cranking and thats only got one good injector.

well ive fitted a new starter! and as soon as i turn the key the engine fires instantly,the other starter was bought off ebay. it was new but the 1 i replaced it with was a bosh one. the solanoid on the bosh is bigger than the other one..nice one for the help corkman, the AA guy tested fuel pressure with it turning over as it would not start..270 or 300bar. i was not there as it my m8s van. i just fix them for him.. i will let you know if it keeps going or not.at the moment its starting no problem..ive tried 20 odd times now and its ok...

 

[corkman]

that pressure sounds perfect so aa man was spot on. unusual that it wouldn't start with that pressure your rpm should have been ok to start. i'd wonder about the compression if there were no errors. what oil is in it.