Technical DPF removal!

[bobbyblue]

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html

Be careful guys when taking of the DPF, under the new vehicle test rules in force from 2012 - see link above, it is an instant fail if a standard exhaust CAT is removed or tampered with. There are lots of other changes mainly relating to the dash board warning lamp operation

 

[halilson]

Torque is quoted as 358 lbft. I questioned them about the gearbox handling that much torque. They said that is a safe figure for the box, they have done several long term cars that are running far more power. I am just happy to have the car running properly, the extra power is a nice bonus.

Thanks for the heads up bobbyblue. Fortunately the DPF is not part of the MOT yet (even for post 2009 cars) and may not be for a long time. It's taken 20 years for the MOT to outlaw pre '92 car's cat removal (prob another ploy to get older cars off the road) so not overly worried about the DPF at the moment. As I said in my earlier posts, I have gutted the original unit so there is no way of knowing that anything has been removed, plus it's easily reversible.

As for the other changes, it's getting to the point where anything older than 10 years will almost definitely fail. I would not want to be an MOT tester, that's for sure! I totally agree that car's need to be thoroughly checked over regularly, so that they can be as safe as possible, but it's getting to the point where an MOT could take several hours, with a price to match.

 

[bobbyblue]

As for the other changes, it's getting to the point where anything older than 10 years will almost definitely fail. I would not want to be an MOT tester, that's for sure! I totally agree that car's need to be thoroughly checked over regularly, so that they can be as safe as possible, but it's getting to the point where an MOT could take several hours, with a price to match.

It's more interference from Brussels, I also agree that cars should be safe but the way it's going I think they are trying to drive older cars off the road and outlaw any type of modification.

 

[halilson]

After 10 days of DPF free motoring, I am happy to report that all is good. I am even happier to report that my local driving (albeit with more aggressive right foot) has returned an average of 42mpg! That's an improvement of 10 %, so I am quietly confident of high 40's, on a run with a less enthusiastic throttle

 

[Doofer]

Interesting stuff. I might be tempted to go down this route if/when my DPF needs replacing.

Diesel soot is a known carcinogen, so yes morality comes into it. However, you have to weigh this up against the likes of our local belching waste incinerator and completely unregulated shipping for anyone who lives near the coast. Plus aircraft belching god knows what over your head,the neighbour's coal fire and their frequent garden fires. I therefore don't see why I should be the only one that cares.

As it sounds like you'd already priced up a DPF, can you give the prices for replacing the DPF against the removal and remap that you did? Thanks.

 

[halilson]

The remap was £275 + £50 to turn off the DPF. I paid £60 labour to remove the DPF, gut it and refit. The cheapest replacement DPF I could find was £250 delivered but you can pay well over a grand, so I'm not sure how good the cheaper one would be. Plus there would be the labour on top to fit it.

My logic was that for not much more than a replacement, I have prevented any future DPF problems and had a remap thrown in, which I would have had done eventually anyway.

 

[Doofer]

Did you get the EGR valve disabled at the same time?

 

[sludgeguts]

Diesel soot is a known carcinogen, so yes morality comes into it. However, you have to weigh this up against the likes of our local belching waste incinerator and completely unregulated shipping for anyone who lives near the coast. Plus aircraft belching god knows what over your head,the neighbour's coal fire and their frequent garden fires. I therefore don't see why I should be the only one that cares.

.

A year or so back there was talk about diesel prices going up quite a lot as there would soon be a greater call for it. Seemingly, it is difficult to clean up the emissions when burning marine diesel so the industry was looking to convert to DERV so they could use cats to clean their act up.

Sure I read somewhere that aircraft tend to carry more or less the minimum amount of fuel required for a flight & that sometimes they come in with too much fuel on board which is ejected (not sure how much truth there was to that one though.

 

[halilson]

I just had the DPF disabled because the egr seems to be ok, as long as I clean it periodically. I knew that if I just replaced the DPF instead of removing it, I would have an ongoing problem with it.

 

[s130]

Aircraft takeoff capability far exceeds landing weight capability. Airlines fuel planes to just about the minimum level they can safely get away with so at then end of their journey they may only have enough fuel for one or two "go rounds" / aborted landings.

If critical problems develop after takeoff and it would be unsafe to burn off excess fuel then they can just dump fuel to bring the total aircraft weight down to the safe/rated landing limit.

Read here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4102030/

 

[Doofer]

Well I'm glad I don't grow my organic fruit and veg anywhere near an airport then.

So we all have to put up with DPFs and EGR valves while aircraft dump fuel on houses and ships burn crude oil. It's good that we're all in it together.

 

[Roadhoguk]

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-servicing-repair/mot-changes-2012.html

Be careful guys when taking of the DPF, under the new vehicle test rules in force from 2012 - see link above, it is an instant fail if a standard exhaust CAT is removed or tampered with. There are lots of other changes mainly relating to the dash board warning lamp operation

this may help with that question, taken from, http://www.longlife.co.uk/

DECATTING A DIESEL

You CAN remove the catalytic converter on your Diesel Car without having a problem with the MOT. Having taken advice from VOSA, who control MOT testing in the UK, we are 100% confident that removing the CAT on a Diesel won't cause an issue. The confusion has arisen due to the regulations changing in January 2012 for cars which qualify for a full gas emissions test where 'if a cat was fitted as standard, it must be there for the MOT'. As Diesel cars don't qualify for a full gas emissions test, the regulation doesn't apply. The same is true for DPFs which you can also remove (they're not even mentioned in the manual)

Anyone can download the MOT testers manual HERE (you'll want the one for Class 3, 4, 5 and 7) and have a look. The part that deals with exhausts is Part 7.1 on page 157 (yes we've looked at this a lot!)

Obviously things can change but two inspectors from VOSA have both given the same information and said that nothing is going to change in the near future. If things do change then we'll be the first to let you know.

Information correct as of April 2012

 

[s130]

I too spoke directly to VOSA about CAT/DPF removal.

Basically there is no testing criteria for DPF presence. Standard smoke test for particulate pollution is the requirement.

From a ECO sensitive and insurance point of view then if you have a DPF and it is working fine, etc. etc. then I would leave it in place. Yes the MPG is reduced but removing a DPF filter and updating the ECU software is a vehicle modification as far as hehicle insurance is concerned. You IMHO should declare this to your insurance company to be legally fully insured. I don't want you anywhere near me if you have done the mods and not notified and got insurance from your insurance company!

Sceptical? Trust me. I went into great detail when I was doing Motor Sport, sprinting, etc. in our road cars. Simple required RAC MSA stuff like yellow tape on the -ve battery lead, ignition on/off direction labels, etc. technically count as a reporatable insurance modification IF they are present on your vehicle on a public road.

I used to see competitors taping up on track arrival and removing prior to departure.

Just please be carefull. Look beyond the mods to the possible legal implications. You don't want to be paying damages for the rest of your life should you be the cause of an accident and then find yourself uninsured due to a stupid bit of sticky tape.

 

[Roadhoguk]

I too spoke directly to VOSA about CAT/DPF removal.

Basically there is no testing criteria for DPF presence. Standard smoke test for particulate pollution is the requirement.

From a ECO sensitive and insurance point of view then if you have a DPF and it is working fine, etc. etc. then I would leave it in place. Yes the MPG is reduced but removing a DPF filter and updating the ECU software is a vehicle modification as far as hehicle insurance is concerned. You IMHO should declare this to your insurance company to be legally fully insured. I don't want you anywhere near me if you have done the mods and not notified and got insurance from your insurance company!

Sceptical? Trust me. I went into great detail when I was doing Motor Sport, sprinting, etc. in our road cars. Simple required RAC MSA stuff like yellow tape on the -ve battery lead, ignition on/off direction labels, etc. technically count as a reporatable insurance modification IF they are present on your vehicle on a public road.

I used to see competitors taping up on track arrival and removing prior to departure.

Just please be carefull. Look beyond the mods to the possible legal implications. You don't want to be paying damages for the rest of your life should you be the cause of an accident and then find yourself uninsured due to a stupid bit of sticky tape.

already done and arranged..ex military Police with class 1 licence so know about road traffic laws and modification implications within the remits of the insurance industry. chill

 

[Doofer]

already done and arranged..ex military Police with class 1 licence so know about road traffic laws and modification implications within the remits of the insurance industry. chill

Does this mean you've declared it to your insurers, or you don't think you have to?

 

[Roadhoguk]

lol, already declared, sorry if my reply seemed a bit arrogant but i took the,

You IMHO should declare this to your insurance company to be legally fully insured. I don't want you anywhere near me if you have done the mods and not notified and got insurance from your insurance company!

as a bit of an insult as well as making an unjust assumption as to my knowledge of a vehicle modification and an attack on my integrity as a road user.

 

[s130]

Hi Roadhouk.

No offense or insult meant and no way was I suggesting that you planned not disclose your proposed mods.

Please accept my appologies if it "came over wrong".

In my partial defense I would say that I, you and others know how many "unisured mods" go onto cars here in the UK and no matter how many times we try to educate people the message never gets through.

I would be professionally negligent if I talked/advised etc. on modifications and did not also point out the legal situation.

Possibly what we need on this forum is a "Legal / Insurance Sticky" that clearly explains the facts and which we can "cover" our posts/ourselves on mods etc. we may be discussing.

 

[Roadhoguk]

Thanks S130, I run 2 forums and have found there is a massive scope for the written / typed syntax to be taken the wrong way, so you have my apologies as well for the misunderstanding, and yes I agree there are an awful lot of vehicles that have been modified without notification to the insurance provider, the vast majority of which are invisible until something happens that warrants an inspection.

Possibly what we need on this forum is a "Legal / Insurance Sticky" that clearly explains the facts and which we can "cover" our posts/ourselves on mods etc. we may be discussing.

Good idea TBH, it may well steer someone into making the correct decision to inform their insurance company.

 

[T14086]

Problem is as a 'responsible' forum we can only advise. How many times has airbag advice been ignored only for people to cut and alter airbag wiring then bragging on the forum it has put the light out! Big deal, so someone copies it and has an accident and no airbag detonates, insurance company investigates and finds altered wiring no payout and huge lawsuit
Years ago yes it was seemed acceptable (renault, citroen air bag wiring soldered etc) but these days everyone is looking for a fall guy and dont expect your employer to cover your ar*e.

DPF is obviously not in same category as air bags however technically you are altering the homologation (think thats how you spell it) of the vehicle giving the manufacture and insurer a get out cause if required. With the ever changing law(s) I would think the best option would be to contact the insurer in question and not refer to a forum although threads like this are very helpful and a good general guide.

Roadhoguk, out of interest these modifications you declared, was there a substantial rise in premiums? I ask because (and I am well over 40 with 10+ years NCD) I was recently charged an extra £35 for alloy wheels which although non-standard on that vehicle but were on the next up in therange and were non aftermarket alloys, seemed a bitsteep?

 

[Roadhoguk]

was there a substantial rise in premiums

Not for me personally no, but then i personally have 33 years of motoring with a full licence and only one claim (2007 Herefordshire floods swept away my car ) and advanced licences but i will wait until I have that in writing , usually it`s the person you speak to, sometimes they are ok and sometimes they are Muppets without a clue so add on ad hoc numbers, if in doubt its always best to shop around.