Technical Does the 244 have no brake pad return springs?

[DermotMorgan]

I'm replacing the rear brake pads on my 2006 244 Citreon Relay/ Fiat Ducato.
I've installed the "Spring clips"/"Shims"/Accessory Kit but, unless I've installed it totally wrong, they don't push the pads away from the disks. They only create a smooth surface for the pads to move on:

The pads will be rubbing lightly on the disks as there's nothing holding them back which doesn't seam right.

What am I missing?

 

[Communicator]

I'm replacing the rear brake pads on my 2006 244 Citreon Relay/ Fiat Ducato.
I've installed the "Spring clips"/"Shims"/Accessory Kit but, unless I've installed it totally wrong, they don't push the pads away from the disks. They only create a smooth surface for the pads to move on:
View attachment 467117
The pads will be rubbing lightly on the disks as there's nothing holding them back which doesn't seam right.

What am I missing?

You seem to be missing the fact that disc brakes do not use return springs At least not in my experience, which is much less than that of @bugsymike who may like to comment.

 

[Kahcorp]

As above reply disc brakes don't have return springs. Those parts are anti rattle clips to keep your pads secure in position.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I agree with Kahcorp, diiscs dont normally have any return springs. They require only minute clearance from pads As long as the calipers are not seized the return suction in the master cylinder retracts the piston just enough to remove pressure. Expect disc to get warm from running even without use. They work best with some heat in them. If the wheel rotates freely after the vehicle has been driven its going to be ok unless there are signs of overheating, i.e. bluing of discs, noise or getting excessivly hot. Springs and shims are usually anti rattle and sqeal measures.

 

[jackwhoo]

As lots of people have stated there is no pad return spring.

There is a piston retraction function in the brake caliper, performed by the piston fluid seal and the shape of the groove the seal sits in. The piston retracts a very small distance after brake released.

 

[bugsymike]

You seem to be missing the fact that disc brakes do not use return springs Atl east not in my experience, which is much less than that of @bugsymike who may like to comment.

As @Communicator and others are mentioning, disc brakes do not rely on return springs.
As long as the pistons are not sticking in the calipers then the action of the pressure seals after release of the brake pedal will fractionally pull back the piston, enough for the wheels to turn with a gentle push of the hand and for you to feel the brake pads slightly "kissing" the discs.
If careful it is possible to observe this action with pads out and someone very gently pushing brake pedal.
This is why they are self adjusting and respond quickly on pressing the brake pedal.
The pads must be free in the caliper, but not excessively so and the "anti rattle " kit does what it says.
Often there are steel shims between the piston and brake pad, these tend to be referred to as anti squeal shims.
So if all that is fitted correctly and a small application of suitable brake grease applied correctly there should be no problems.
One other point is where a single piston sliding caliper arrangement is used, then the sliders must be able to work freely and with no undue wear/rattle.
On rear brake discs with handbrake operating on the disc, two other points need to be checked.
One is the cables not over adjusted or sticking causing issues.
The other is the self adjusting mechanism must be in good order inside the caliper. This mechanism is basically a thread and ratchet that is internal to handbrake calipers and not a service item. If it fails then a replacement caliper is the safest option.
If fitting brake pads to handbrake calipers, older vehicles use a suitable "windback" tool and modern electrical type handbrakes have to be "pulled back" using diagnostic software.
Generally speaking if the wheel is off the ground and the handbrake arm on caliper is checked with handbrake off, the arm should be against it's stop and the wheel able to turn easily, I then push that arm with my finger and the brake should come on and then off on release of pressure. This should also happen with foot and handbrake operation and again check after road test, plus a quick thermal check with your hand on all four wheels should show no noticeably warmer than the others.

 

[DermotMorgan]

Thanks all for the replies, very informative.
The rear brake on the 244 is a combined drum/disk brake with a single piston for the disk and these clips were the last step of a bigger job. The sliders/guide sleeves were not moving freely as bugymike recommends so I'd had to remove, clean, and grease them. 2 needed replaced as the rubber covers/seals were cracked and sliders were pitted from corrosion.
They are now moving freely and there is no pressure on the disks after the brake is released (single cylinder piston retracts) but there is nothing to centre the pads over the disk. I can hear a pad rubbing lightly (don't think it's the drum as I'd loosened it off) when turning the wheel by hand but that is normal by the sounds of it. I learned a few things today!

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks all for the replies, very informative.
The rear brake on the 244 is a combined drum/disk brake with a single piston for the disk and these clips were the last step of a bigger job. The sliders/guide sleeves were not moving freely as bugymike recommends so I'd had to remove, clean, and grease them. 2 needed replaced as the rubber covers/seals were cracked and sliders were pitted from corrosion.
They are now moving freely and there is no pressure on the disks after the brake is released (single cylinder piston retracts) but there is nothing to centre the pads over the disk. I can hear a pad rubbing lightly (don't think it's the drum as I'd loosened it off) when turning the wheel by hand but that is normal by the sounds of it. I learned a few things today!

Your set up is what I prefer, it gives a good handbrake once all freed off and correctly adjusted , but also gives the simplicity of ease changing brake pads. Some people don't like the inconvenience of removing calipers etc. to get to handbrake, but once set up I found it best and very effective on the many Iveco Daily 3.5 tonne vans and pick ups even with a 3.5 tonne trailer the handbrake held well.
Not sure what you meant by "but there is nothing to centre the pads over the disk", maybe you can clarify.
The other thing I dislike about disc handbrakes is if parked hot then as disc contracts handbrake relaxes and vehicle can roll away. I think this is why some adopt electric handbrakes which continue to apply pressure.

 

[porta]

@bugsymike excuse my ‘pertinence’ but I hate them…having worked on the ‘top hat’ style shoes in disc I think they’re a complete PITA, either put disks on or put drums on, but please don’t put both on!

 

[bugsymike]

@bugsymike excuse my ‘pertinence’ but I hate them…having worked on the ‘top hat’ style shoes in disc I think they’re a complete PITA, either put disks on or put drums on, but please don’t put both on!

I agree the initial setting up takes longer, but once done I would have them every time, even on my twin wheel Iveco Daily's where it involves the massive hub nut and bearings removal to access.
For me a drum hand brake is more effective and drum wheel cylinders do not seem to last hydraulically as long as calipers on discs.

 

[porta]

You just need to carry a lump hammer, as part of your tool kit, to bash the hell out of the rim to ‘free’ them off

 

[jackwhoo]

Whoever designed the x250 combined rear disc/internal handbrake shoe design should be taken outside and give a very Stern Telling Off and then be sent on a very long training course.

 

[bugsymike]

You just need to carry a lump hammer, as part of your tool kit, to bash the hell out of the rim to ‘free’ them off

We don't get the rust issues you Northerners have to put up with.

Whoever designed the x250 combined rear disc/internal handbrake shoe design should be taken outside and give a very Stern Telling Off and then be sent on a very long training course.

As an apprentice I used to think that about Alec Issigonis the designer of the original mini when trying to fit by pass hoses and water pumps etc.
However in hindsite they were a lot easier to work on than some modern stuff.
I used to like the 60s Fords, it was almost a case of shout at it and the gearbox etc. would jump out. Clutch on a Ford Transit would take 30 minutes if you took your time.