Technical Do I *need* an alloy sump with a standard engine?

[the hobbler]

Just cross tight and do it in three stages start from low torque, actually there is nothing to bend here and specially with no gasket it is pretty solid. I remember though it was very very hard to remove because of the sealant but eventually came out.

Being that I have been at work today (got fed-up with retirement, so retired from it!) Thomas has beaten me to the answer. He is spot-on. I would suggest though that you put the car fsirly high up on stands (under the trailing part of the rear links) to make it easier to work on. Also, remove the flywheel pan (3 x 10mm bolts)---makes it much easier to get at the screws/bolts behind the flywheel. Lastly, I refitted the little air-direction shroud that goes between the fan-shroud and the sump. You will have to fit the screw that is hidden inside the little shroud when you fit all the other sump retaining screws and then fit the 2 shroud screws last.
When you put the sealing goo on the sump's flange, only put it on the outer 1/2 of the flange and carefully around the screw holes. Doing this will prevent much (if any) of the goo being squeezed into the sump as you tighten the screws up.

 

[Noah500]

OK - I've got: sump, Permatex and bolts. The sump came with a cork gasket (which I will not be using) and a sump plug and copper washer, so I think I'm good to go.

 

[Noah500]

Right - I did the job over the past couple of days. As a reminder, the sump is the 3.5 litre 'Abarth' one from Motobambino, which came complete with alloy sump plug and copper washer. I had previously painted the Abarth lettering with Revell 'Ferrari Red' enamel paint (needed touching up again after I had fitted everything).

The undertray was still off form when I cleaned the oil filter so first off I jacked up the left hand side of the car and drained the old oil out first, then let it back down, jacked it up under the old sump and put axle stands under the suspension just by the pivot, to get plenty of access.

Undoing the sump bolts was easy (too easy?) maybe because the rubber gasket had some give in it. The remaining oil in the standard sump didn't look too bad, certainly no sludge, so maybe the engine has been reasonably well looked after

FYI I've included a pic of the old and new sumps side by side - the new one is 2-3cm deeper.

I cleaned up the mating surface on the bottom of the engine and went to put on the Permatex... only to realise that I had got Ultra Copper, intended for exhausts; though it might have been OK, I decided to get something more appropriate and ended with a Wynn's product, which was the only one I could find in stock locally at 5pm...

Per advice, I put the sealant around the outside half of the sump mating surface, then went round all the bolt holes to be sure of a good seal (hopefully!). The Wynn's calls for hand tightening the bolts, leaving for an hour, then fully tightening them, then leaving for 24 hours to fully cure, so that's what I did. I considered using the old oval washers but decided in the end to go all stainless all round: 20mm M6 cap head full-thread bolts, spring washers and flat washers. It looks nice and neat, and hopefully will do the job.

After a but of a rub down of visible engine and diff part to remove some of the encrusted oil+dirt, the final job was to refit the undertray, adding new screws where 2 had been missing.

Next day I removed the stands and let the car back down. After another day there are a few oil drips on the floor but I think that is from where it was still trickling out of the engine while there was no sump on. In the next few days I'll take it out for a bit of a run to burn off any residual oil on the bottom, then leave it to stand and check again, but fingers crossed!

One thing I have noticed, which stands out with the shiny alloy of the new sump, compared with the old black one, is just how off-the horizontal the engine is. I've only changed the sump so I think it must always have been like this, backed up by what I can make out from previous photos of the back of the car. It looks a bit odd - are they all like this, or is something amiss? I guess it could be partly because it has been jacked up and on stands for a couple of days?

 

[the hobbler]

Right - I did the job over the past couple of days. As a reminder, the sump is the 3.5 litre 'Abarth' one from Motobambino, which came complete with alloy sump plug and copper washer. I had previously painted the Abarth lettering with Revell 'Ferrari Red' enamel paint (needed touching up again after I had fitted everything).

The undertray was still off form when I cleaned the oil filter so first off I jacked up the left hand side of the car and drained the old oil out first, then let it back down, jacked it up under the old sump and put axle stands under the suspension just by the pivot, to get plenty of access.

Undoing the sump bolts was easy (too easy?) maybe because the rubber gasket had some give in it. The remaining oil in the standard sump didn't look too bad, certainly no sludge, so maybe the engine has been reasonably well looked after

FYI I've included a pic of the old and new sumps side by side - the new one is 2-3cm deeper.

I cleaned up the mating surface on the bottom of the engine and went to put on the Permatex... only to realise that I had got Ultra Copper, intended for exhausts; though it might have been OK, I decided to get something more appropriate and ended with a Wynn's product, which was the only one I could find in stock locally at 5pm...

Per advice, I put the sealant around the outside half of the sump mating surface, then went round all the bolt holes to be sure of a good seal (hopefully!). The Wynn's calls for hand tightening the bolts, leaving for an hour, then fully tightening them, then leaving for 24 hours to fully cure, so that's what I did. I considered using the old oval washers but decided in the end to go all stainless all round: 20mm M6 cap head full-thread bolts, spring washers and flat washers. It looks nice and neat, and hopefully will do the job.

After a but of a rub down of visible engine and diff part to remove some of the encrusted oil+dirt, the final job was to refit the undertray, adding new screws where 2 had been missing.

Next day I removed the stands and let the car back down. After another day there are a few oil drips on the floor but I think that is from where it was still trickling out of the engine while there was no sump on. In the next few days I'll take it out for a bit of a run to burn off any residual oil on the bottom, then leave it to stand and check again, but fingers crossed!

One thing I have noticed, which stands out with the shiny alloy of the new sump, compared with the old black one, is just how off-the horizontal the engine is. I've only changed the sump so I think it must always have been like this, backed up by what I can make out from previous photos of the back of the car. It looks a bit odd - are they all like this, or is something amiss? I guess it could be partly because it has been jacked up and on stands for a couple of days?

No, they are not normally at that much of an angle. I would suggest that you check the mounts at the front of the gearbox, one of them might be broken

 

[Noah500]

Good shout, @the hobbler ! I jacked up the car again, removed the gearbox cradle support and the mounts, and this is what came off: both mounts split, plus the rubbers look perished as hell... 2 new ones on order

 

[Noah500]

Now that the new mounts have arrived I can see the reason for the massive titl: apart from the fact that both gearbox mounts were broken, one of them seems to have a section of rubber missing. New ones now fitted and the gearbox is resting on the mounts rather than on the bottom of the cradle
Although there's still a bit of a tilt on the sump, it's not terrible. I've tried jacking up the gearbox on one side a bit to adjust the mount fitting on one side (in the slotted hole) but it just seems to move the whole thing up. Anyway, it's now 'acceptable', at least, and I've replaced some defective parts.

 

[fiat500]

Now that the new mounts have arrived I can see the reason for the massive titl: apart from the fact that both gearbox mounts were broken, one of them seems to have a section of rubber missing. New ones now fitted and the gearbox is resting on the mounts rather than on the bottom of the cradle
Although there's still a bit of a tilt on the sump, it's not terrible. I've tried jacking up the gearbox on one side a bit to adjust the mount fitting on one side (in the slotted hole) but it just seems to move the whole thing up. Anyway, it's now 'acceptable', at least, and I've replaced some defective parts.

It should drive more smoothly too.
I used to think it was a good idea to use the elongated slots to get the box mounted high and level. But I now think that means the rubber is under tension from the start and the adhesion to the steel back is never all that good. I had a very new set where the rubber broke free after a week or two. I epoxied them back together after a thorough abrasion and degreasing and they have been good for four years now.

 

[Noah500]

Thanks!

 

[the hobbler]

Thanks!

The engine is sitting just about right now---no need to worry about that slight angle