General Diesel Judder??

[DieselDriver]

Is this only relevant to the 2litre JTD multijet? Are the cars involved all 16v, or are there any 1.9JTD multijet 8v?

Hi

I have an 1.9 120hp 8v that judder at 1500-2000 rpm and especially doing the DPF regen.

The garage now want to change the exhaust valves?
Has any one experience with that on an 8 valve?

I should maybe mention that they have changed the flywheel, EGR valve, and all injectors without solving the problem

 

[Tad-bravo]

Hi

I have an 1.9 120hp 8v that judder at 1500-2000 rpm and especially doing the DPF regen.

The garage now want to change the exhaust valves?
Has any one experience with that on an 8 valve?

I should maybe mention that they have changed the flywheel, EGR valve, and all injectors without solving the problem

I thought 1.9l 8v's didn't have DPF?

 

[neilshep]

I thought 1.9l 8v's didn't have DPF?

There are "bodywork codes" for 1.9 8V with DPF. eg

1.9 Multijet 8v 120BHP
198AXB1A 01C
198AXB1A 01D

1.9 Multijet 8v 115BHP (°)
198AXD1A 03C
198AXD1A 03D

1.9 Multijet 8v 90BHP
198AXE1A 04B

However, where these cars are is a mystery. No-one seems to have confessed to owning one.

 

[DieselDriver]

I thought 1.9l 8v's didn't have DPF?

Hi
In Denmark all diesel cars from 2008 and forward have DPF incl. 1.9 8v, because of government law. But if they don´t have DPF in UK I apologize for asking.

 

[jon_gordon]

My '07 1.9L 8v has DPF.

 

[Lloydy19880]

Hi All,
Glad other people seem to have the judder problem, mine started a few weeks ago after a spirited blast to the lakes for the day (round trip 340miles)
Its a 165 on a 59 plate, brought it in December 2010 and now added about 5k to the mileage.
Juddering seems to only happen in part/light throttle at around 1300 revs.
Does anybody know where the DFP filter is located and can it easily be removed, have done some reading up and they seem to be the crapest invention ever. Increasing back pressure causing turbo failure and using excess fuel to regen, where's the point in that??? Not exactly environmental!

 

[spanner72]

Hi, I have a 1.9 D active punto which has had this juddering problem now for over 4 years. I have fitted a de-cat pipe, crank position sensor, cleaned and re-sealed the inlet manifold, used reddex and even replaced glow plugs. non of which has cured the problem. the judder will start in 3rd gear arround 1500 rpm and will stop at 2500 rpm, same for 4th and 5th gears. it can be quite violent at times, but if you lift off the trottle slightly and re-apply it tends to go away. my next step is to change the pedal and clean out the egr valve. the fiat dealers seem to be clueless regarding this problem. if I find a solution, I will post it here.

 

[Wiggz]

Hi Guys, just to add to this (I may have posted a while back on the same thread to be fair...will check back).

I have a 58 Bravo which I run at about a 50 mile a day commute. My 42k service was done the other week and I mentioned the same problem to the dealer, and the fact I'd had a similar problem before my 21K service too.

They said they had "flushed out" pipes and the like....but had found no problem...just like at my 21K service.

Sure enough...about 150miles after my service, I start to lose power when accelerating and judder kicks in....about 3-4 seconds of that and power resumes. The problem is, it's getting dangerous now as if I'm accelerating up a hill, I actually slow down quite considerably!!!

If they can't find anything wrong...I'm loathe to take it elsewhere and start the whole process again...I have ZERO cash to do this.

Has anyone had a success with this yet?

 

[olly1]

Hi Guys, just to add to this (I may have posted a while back on the same thread to be fair...will check back).

I have a 58 Bravo which I run at about a 50 mile a day commute. My 42k service was done the other week and I mentioned the same problem to the dealer, and the fact I'd had a similar problem before my 21K service too.

They said they had "flushed out" pipes and the like....but had found no problem...just like at my 21K service.

Sure enough...about 150miles after my service, I start to lose power when accelerating and judder kicks in....about 3-4 seconds of that and power resumes. The problem is, it's getting dangerous now as if I'm accelerating up a hill, I actually slow down quite considerably!!!

If they can't find anything wrong...I'm loathe to take it elsewhere and start the whole process again...I have ZERO cash to do this.

Has anyone had a success with this yet?

Yes had the exhausts valves replaced last year at about 45,000 Miles now just done 63,000 and have not had a repeat of the judder since the new exhaust valves fitted.

 

[bigfella]

I had the same problems with my 1.9d multyjet 150 sport.
First the juddering then the flat spots and the "tapping" noise when pulling off.
After putting it off for a while i took it back to the fiat garage and it turned out.........
Injector number 4 was leeking and needed a new injector number 1.
To cut a long story short is cast me about £430. and the car had only done 29K and is 3.5 years old.
Still not happy with preformance so i took it back and it looks like my egr valve may be dirty and needs cleaning........

 

[Craig010]

OOH! Mine makes a tapping noise too, as well as having judder below around 1400 RPM! Can only be heard inside the car with the radio off while driving, but its definitely noticeable at any RPM. I just thought it might be because it was diesel, never having owned a diesel car before. It taps every time the engine does a cycle, and is rhythmic. Where abouts in Wales are you my friend?

 

[bigfella]

Diesel naturaly make a tapping noise, you will be able to tell the difference with this noise as its more severe when you pull off.
And after all the charges they had me for a new tyres aswell...lol
I live in ystradgynlais (outside swasnea towards brecon).

 

[Craig010]

Riight okay, mine just taps all the time. Oh about 20 mins away from me

 

[Hooper11]

Reading through this thread I'm recognising the similar symptoms. 'Flat spots' and juddering at a variety of speeds, having to change down gear, accelerate up and then change up a gear again.

Has anyone had any recent developments?

Also getting a knocking sound whilst sitting in queues with foot on the brake, only stops when start driving and get up to 10mph - hill start assist or ABS maybe..?

I've just gone into EMG Cambridge to talk to them but apparently no DETs are available until next Tuesday for a talk about the problem... already not looking hopeful, lol.

 

[bun]

Just to aid people in their diagnosis of judder problems...
1st hand experience of a knackered Dual mass flywheel. The car quite suddenly started to judder under normal acceleration which over a period of 2 weeks got more and more violent. It felt a bit like a weird miss fire at first and became quite jolty like when you slam the throttle and bounce the front wheels (yes we've all done it in years gone by!). the harder you throttle the worse it gets. As the car gets up to speed or you let off the throttle the judder decreases...of course this means less load = less stress on the flywheel and subsequently less obvious judder.
Fiat replaced the driveshafts under warranty..checked out the gearbox and finally diagnosed the DMF and replaced this along with the clutch while it was in bits. Car is an 08 and had done 60K at the time. Its been perfect since.
I know friends with other makes of diesel with DMF's and some have actually converted back to normal flywheels after multiple failures. Personally I don't like them either. My old petrol coupe was 320 brake and never felt rough and in need of the supposedly smoothing effect of a DMF?

 

[Hooper11]

Just to aid people in their diagnosis of judder problems...
1st hand experience of a knackered Dual mass flywheel. The car quite suddenly started to judder under normal acceleration which over a period of 2 weeks got more and more violent. It felt a bit like a weird miss fire at first and became quite jolty like when you slam the throttle and bounce the front wheels (yes we've all done it in years gone by!). the harder you throttle the worse it gets. As the car gets up to speed or you let off the throttle the judder decreases...of course this means less load = less stress on the flywheel and subsequently less obvious judder.
Fiat replaced the driveshafts under warranty..checked out the gearbox and finally diagnosed the DMF and replaced this along with the clutch while it was in bits. Car is an 08 and had done 60K at the time. Its been perfect since.
I know friends with other makes of diesel with DMF's and some have actually converted back to normal flywheels after multiple failures. Personally I don't like them either. My old petrol coupe was 320 brake and never felt rough and in need of the supposedly smoothing effect of a DMF?

Cheers Bun, this is pretty handy as I'm having the exact same problem as you and the fact that changing the DMF might sort things out could be something to suggest when I take it in next Wednesday.

I'm also getting it when I'm driving at 30mph in 4th gear and it does the juddering as though its in the wrong gear. So I change down to 3rd and it still does it. It also does it when cruising at 70mph on motorway in 6th, then you put your foot down and you get nothing but juddering - like an uncomfortable turbo lag..

It seems as though it happens predominantly when the accelerator is pressed about an inch to keep it at a constant speed. Seems to be a car that wants to constantly accelerate..?

Just found this on another forum:

http://www.fiat.co.uk/Community/forums/3/7594/ShowThread.aspx

NOTE interesting picture / explanation half way down.

 

[citds]

Hi guys, save yourself the expense of paying for diagnostics, use an Italian Car Specialist they are usually fixers not fitters, mine doesn't charge for using his diagnostics tools, and if the machine can't find the fault it is back to old fashioned skills.

Check out Motormech Birmingham, they have an excellent reputation on the FCCUK site, if they can sort out Coupe's and Alfa's all else should ne easy peasy.

 

[JTD_Liam]

I thought these problems had been solved by this infamous software update for the DPF Regenerations. From this thread i presume this isn't the case?

How many of you are still having these problems? It looks like some people are in the Clutch/DM Flywheel camp and some are in the DPF/Valves/EGR camp?

I've not given Fiat UK an ear bashing for a few months so if i can get more info, i might give them a ring & try & get some sort of official response from them, as it seems (as is often the case) that there's no uniform response from the dealerships. Only one or two seem to be following some sort of logic.

Has anyone actually had their car cured, to the point it's remained symptom-free?

Liam

 

[Wiggz]

Well I took mine into the Fiat dealer. They had it two days and when I returned I got the following response.

It seems that they did a few tests and couldn't reproduce the issue (which is hysterical to me as it's there all the time!). In any case they opened a ticket with Fiat about it based on my continued issues. Fiat wanted a 120Mile road test, at my expense even though it was under warranty. Long story short, the garage cut the road test corner and replaced a "valve" which is what they believed the problem would have ended up being.

My car was fine for about 200 miles and now once again it's kicked in. My warranty isn't up until October so it's going back in with an ear bashing.

It's very dangerous when you pull out from behind a lorry on the Motorway to overtake but when you put your foot down, the judder causes the engine to actually slow down and not speed up!

 

[Hooper11]

Result

After a month since first reporting, they've had it in all this week. At first they couldn't re-create it but apparently today they drove it again and they have discovered it.

They've been onto Fiat and agree its a gearbox/DMF issue. Therefore, they're going to be sending a new one over.

If people haven't seen the link above, look here:

http://www.fiat.co.uk/Community/forums/3/7594/ShowThread.aspx

The pictures explain it quite well