Technical Crank, No Start; Smoke from spark plug holes; need help

[Keepthe12alive]

Hello friends, I hope you are well and having a good one--

Reaching out as I'm in another pickle. I have done like 20,000 miles since the head gasket repair last year, and I am so indebted to this forum.

My car has recently broken down, and I really need help. Below is a description of symptoms and the situation:

1. - Was low, low (on the red icon bottom of fuel gauge) on fuel. Added petrol from my kind mechanic across the street, and then rushed to work a mile from where I live.
   
   
2. - As I was pulling into work, I felt the accelerator feel funny, and the car started to feel like it was beginning to choke or cut out.
   
   
3. - I parked, and then to see how it was, I tried turning it on and off. **It would start, and then die second after. Now it seems like it will crank but not turn over.**
   
   
4. - Tried charging battery, but no avail.
   
   
5. -Today, I tried swapping the spark plugs with the old ones, and, when removing the old ones, I notices all of them were covered in oil. Additionally, when removing the plugs in the first place, smoke was coming from the spark plug holes.
   
   
6. - At this point, I could only get it to turn over (before cutting off seconds later) if it had been left for some time (hours).
   
   
7. - With the old ones which were not covered in oil, it reliably turned over several times before cutting out shortly after each time, and then could only crank but not turn.
   
   
8. I also found clumps of something covered in oil on the tip of the breather opening next to the solenoid coming from the rocker cover.

Other diagnostic info:
- No codes thrown up
- Checked fuses and tried swapping relays around to rule out ignition and fuel pump

 

[Keepthe12alive]

Hello friends, I hope you are well and having a good one--

Reaching out as I'm in another pickle. I have done like 20,000 miles since the head gasket repair last year, and I am so indebted to this forum.

My car has recently broken down, and I really need help. Below is a description of symptoms and the situation:

1. - Was low, low (on the red icon bottom of fuel gauge) on fuel. Added petrol from my kind mechanic across the street, and then rushed to work a mile from where I live.
   
   
2. - As I was pulling into work, I felt the accelerator feel funny, and the car started to feel like it was beginning to choke or cut out.
   
   
3. - I parked, and then to see how it was, I tried turning it on and off. **It would start, and then die second after. Now it seems like it will crank but not turn over.**
   
   
4. - Tried charging battery, but no avail.
   
   
5. -Today, I tried swapping the spark plugs with the old ones, and, when removing the old ones, I notices all of them were covered in oil. Additionally, when removing the plugs in the first place, smoke was coming from the spark plug holes.
   
   
6. - At this point, I could only get it to turn over (before cutting off seconds later) if it had been left for some time (hours).
   
   
7. - With the old ones which were not covered in oil, it reliably turned over several times before cutting out shortly after each time, and then could only crank but not turn.
   
   
8. I also found clumps of something covered in oil on the tip of the breather opening next to the solenoid coming from the rocker cover.

Other diagnostic info:
- No codes thrown up
- Checked fuses and tried swapping relays around to rule out ignition and fuel pump

I know for something like this in general (I.e., crank but no start) it's likely either fuel or air, or ignition. In addition to testing all sensors like CrankPS, MAP, I might test fuel line for clogged injectors, fuel filter, or a vacuum leak.

Because of the state of the plugs with oil all over them, the smoke from the holes, and then how the clean injectors functioned until I had tried it several times, my working hypothesis is that I have a serious internal oil leak problem such that oil is interfering with spark almost entirely, and suffocating the combustion.

I have my haynes manual and am referencing the troubleshooting sections for fuel and ignition given the primary symptoms of crank but no start.

 

[koalar]

Can you here the pump operate for a few seconds every time you turn the ignition on

 

[Keepthe12alive]

Can you here the pump operate for a few seconds every time you turn the ignition on
View attachment 475961

Forgot to mention that I believ I can -- was taught to wait till the pump is primed before starting the car

 

[koalar]

Just check. It's pretty obvious from the the petrol fill tube, if you have an assistant

Does your car have a rev counter

 

[Keepthe12alive]

Just check. It's pretty obvious from the the petrol fill tube, if you have an assistant

Does your car have a rev counter

I can hear that noise from the driver seat every time I tried it -- always waited to hear the priming finish

And it does have a rev counter

 

[koalar]

When you crank does it bump up off zero, to roughly 300 rpm

What light come in the dash at ignition on

Which stay on offer a few seconds

Which stay on during cranking


Mainly interested in immobilizer, oil, battery, engine

 

[koalar]

Plugs wet with oil or fuel

Black liquid or clear, smell of fuel

I am guessing the smoke you are seeing is fuel vapour

I suspect the rev counts will bounce up and the fuel injectors are firing

Checking for spark would be the next move if the rev counter is moving

 

[Keepthe12alive]

YE

When you crank does it bump up off zero, to roughly 300 rpm

What light come in the dash at ignition on

Which stay on offer a few seconds

Which stay on during cranking


Mainly interested in immobilizer, oil, battery, engine

Yes -- would say it goes to about 500 then 300 rpm

Can't remember what stays on at the dash, I should have taken a video (car is still a mile away from where I live)

 

[koalar]

That's good

Crank sensors working fine

ECU seems fine

The petrol the mechanic gave you was fresh petrol ?

It goes off over a couple of years

It was petrol and not diesel

Take one plug out, if you have jump lead crank the engine and see if theres a spark




Be careful where what you use as a ground, painted things like the lifting eye are insulated

 

[koalar]

Thinking about it a bit more

Push the throttle all the way to the floor, crank the car for about 3-5 seconds, the injectors will not open, and will dry the plugs and cylinders

Then spray some easy start or similar

Gas from a blow torch works as well as easy start obviously not lite, if you have a plumber torch handy

Bradex Easystart

Assists engine starting, whatever the weather. Suitable for use in all diesel and petrol engines. Quick and easy to use and works down to -20°C without any damaging effects. Suitable for use in a variety of engines including: Cars, vans and motorbikes, lorries, lawnmowers, chainsaws & other...

www.toolstation.com

Here

While someone try to crank the engine (foot now off the throttle pedal) and see if it trys to fire up

If it does we know it probably got compression, and spark

And it's likely to be a fuel problem, symptoms sound more fuel related to me

 

[Keepthe12alive]

Thinking about it a bit more

Push the throttle all the way to the floor, crank the car for about 3-5 seconds, the injectors will not open, and will dry the plugs and cylinders

Then spray some easy start or similar

Gas from a blow torch works as well as easy start obviously not lite, if you have a plumber torch handy

Bradex Easystart

Assists engine starting, whatever the weather. Suitable for use in all diesel and petrol engines. Quick and easy to use and works down to -20°C without any damaging effects. Suitable for use in a variety of engines including: Cars, vans and motorbikes, lorries, lawnmowers, chainsaws & other...

www.toolstation.com

Here

View attachment 475971

While someone try to crank the engine (foot now off the throttle pedal) and see if it trys to fire up

If it does we know it probably got compression, and spark

And it's likely to be a fuel problem, symptoms sound more fuel related to me

Thank you so much and sorry for late reply — trying these things now — had a busy day yesterday and wasn’t around the car after going to get easy start

 

[Keepthe12alive]

I’m a one-man show at the moment, but I sprayed easy start inside the air intake manifold where that sensor on the side goes and sprayed a little puddle inside the throttle body and then cranked it — that would reliably get it to turn over

Seems like can confirm spark and compression likely not an issue based on your guidance there

 

[Keepthe12alive]

I’m a one-man show at the moment, but I sprayed easy start inside the air intake manifold where that sensor on the side goes and sprayed a little puddle inside the throttle body and then cranked it — that would reliably get it to turn over

Seems like can confirm spark and compression likely not an issue based on your guidance there

Also not any lights on dash aside from door open, etc.

None of the ones to watch for from above

 

[Keepthe12alive]

I’m also seeing that the other fuel components aside from the fuel line/rod are inside the pump assembly, and we seem to think the pump is otherwise good because we can hear it prime every time I turn the key to the on position.

If that all sound right, am I looking at fuel system troubleshooting in general or is there a good way to start?

Many, many thanks

 

[koalar]

So it fires on easy start

It failed straight after running empty and borrowing some fuel

Oil, and battery lights should be on at ignition on and the start of cranking, oil light will go out first and battery should not go out until the engine fires

I'd check that petrol is reaching the injectors, there's a quick connect on the right hand side

Place a jar and pump some out

Look if it's clean,and smell if it's petrol,

Oily plugs sounds like the injectors are firing

Here's mine

Koalar random thoughts | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Got the car here for a few day 1.2 petrol 2011 Going to post a few pictures and video of some simple and basic tests My well be a bit random as they pop into my head and might sort them into the proper order later

www.fiatforum.com

Give you an idea of how fast it should be flowing and the colour

 

[Keepthe12alive]

So it fires on easy start

It failed straight after running empty and borrowing some fuel

Oil, and battery lights should be on at ignition on and the start of cranking, oil light will go out first and battery should not go out until the engine fires

I'd check that petrol is reaching the injectors, there's a quick connect on the right hand side

Place a jar and pump some out

Look if it's clean,and smell if it's petrol,

Oily plugs sounds like the injectors are firing

Here's mine

Koalar random thoughts | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Got the car here for a few day 1.2 petrol 2011 Going to post a few pictures and video of some simple and basic tests My well be a bit random as they pop into my head and might sort them into the proper order later

www.fiatforum.com

Give you an idea of how fast it should be flowing and the colour

Is the correct way to do this to crank it with the injector rail disconnected?

Also, my clips for connecting and disconnecting it are busted — is there something else to recommend without taking that off yet (I can’t imagine there is lol)

Also, is there a good place to get the hose connected parts so I can replace it?

 

[koalar]

Is the correct way to do this to crank it with the injector rail disconnected?

Just ignition on

Also, my clips for connecting and disconnecting it are busted — is there something else to recommend without taking that off yet (I can’t imagine there is lol)

That's a shame,

Guess it's not leaking though

Also, is there a good place to get the hose connected parts so I can replace it?

Google fuel quick connector, should be some in eBay, I cant remember the size there normally 6 or 8mm, don't have I panda here to check

There is a valve on the right hand side of the fuel rail

It's covered by a black plastic cap, unfortunately it needs the pin in the centre pushing down so a little awkward without the special pipe made for the job

There is a quick connect on the fuel pump, and you can push a pipe on to redirect into a container even having to take the seat out, it's probably the easiest solution

Koalar random thoughts | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Got the car here for a few day 1.2 petrol 2011 Going to post a few pictures and video of some simple and basic tests My well be a bit random as they pop into my head and might sort them into the proper order later

www.fiatforum.com

Here's mine, I didn't full remove the seat just slide it out of the way

 

[Zardo]

come on guys, there was diesel in the jerrycan, what else

 

[Keepthe12alive]

Just ignition on

That's a shame,

Guess it's not leaking though


Google fuel quick connector, should be some in eBay, I cant remember the size there normally 6 or 8mm, don't have I panda here to check

There is a valve on the right hand side of the fuel rail

It's covered by a black plastic cap, unfortunately it needs the pin in the centre pushing down so a little awkward without the special pipe made for the job

There is a quick connect on the fuel pump, and you can push a pipe on to redirect into a container even having to take the seat out, it's probably the easiest solution

Koalar random thoughts | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Got the car here for a few day 1.2 petrol 2011 Going to post a few pictures and video of some simple and basic tests My well be a bit random as they pop into my head and might sort them into the proper order later

www.fiatforum.com

Here's mine, I didn't full remove the seat just slide it out of the way

Thank you so much — I’ll do what I can and see what happens

Won’t be up to too much this evening just with the light and work

Just got a multimeter though and am ready to go down the fuel system troubleshooting pipeline!