I buy from aliexpres a Fuel Pressure Gauge tools, and do some test,measured pressure.
When you put the contact and hear the pump as priming fuel ,the pressure must be 3.1-3.2 bar to start normal
Technical Cold start problem at first start
- Thread starter badboy20cm
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Technical Cold start problem at first start
I buy from aliexpres a Fuel Pressure Gauge tools, and do some test,measured pressure.
When you put the contact and hear the pump as priming fuel ,the pressure must be 3.1-3.2 bar to start normal
What pressure was the old one, that didn't work? It'll be interesting to know what pressure is "too low".
Ralf S.
Ralf S.
Lock at this picture, on that pressure at first start if i try to start the engine , it start 1=3 sec and then dies.
At the second start , normal start ok ,because the pressure increase.
Sometimes it smelled of gasoline,drowned engine, incomplete combustion of gasoline from the first attempt.
I preferred to find the solution mysel, I did not want to give the money to the mechanics only on opinions.
Total costs was:
1. fuel pump ---------- 67 lire
2. gasoline test ---- 16 lire
3. USE Complete Inlet Manifold Fuel Injectors Rail Sensors Throttle Body ------ 46 lire
4. much patience
At the second start , normal start ok ,because the pressure increase.
Sometimes it smelled of gasoline,drowned engine, incomplete combustion of gasoline from the first attempt.
I preferred to find the solution mysel, I did not want to give the money to the mechanics only on opinions.
Total costs was:
1. fuel pump ---------- 67 lire
2. gasoline test ---- 16 lire
3. USE Complete Inlet Manifold Fuel Injectors Rail Sensors Throttle Body ------ 46 lire
4. much patience
Attachments
Okay...
3.1 kgf/cm2 or Bar ... (0.3 Mpa)... is good.
1.0 kgf/cm3 or Bar ... (0.1 Mpa)... is not so good.
Ralf S.
3.1 kgf/cm2 or Bar ... (0.3 Mpa)... is good.
1.0 kgf/cm3 or Bar ... (0.1 Mpa)... is not so good.
Ralf S.
Hy ,i do a update.:bang:
After i change in december fuel rail , was all fine.In the same time in december the ambient temp was low with minus.
The car start ok until March when the ambient temp became warm.
I was at fiat dealer, and say my car not have ecu update, i ask for this problem and nobody know.
I put new parts:
-fuel injectors all new
-coolant sensor new
-crank shaft senzor new
-map senzor new
-purge valve ,not new but ok
If you dont know the fuel pump is new,was the first thing what i change.
I put another throttle body,nothing.
I put from fuel pump a pipe up front to the fuel rail, nothing change.
I dismantled the ECU and i check the conection of all pins,nothing.
I do a test , when i try first time to start i help the engine with starting fluid spray, and slowly slowly she start at the first time.
Today i will change the oil senzor and the cam shaft senzor.
No erors at the tester.
See the 1-2-3-4 parameters when try to start , and 11-22-33-44 when the second or third try start ok.
I dont know what to do more, realy
Thursday i will try to change the manifold,why? Because i have one and whay not.Maybe i'm lucky.
If you have any idea guys ,share please.
Maybe i found what it is the problem and help comunity do not go through what I've been through.
After i change in december fuel rail , was all fine.In the same time in december the ambient temp was low with minus.
The car start ok until March when the ambient temp became warm.
I was at fiat dealer, and say my car not have ecu update, i ask for this problem and nobody know.
I put new parts:
-fuel injectors all new
-coolant sensor new
-crank shaft senzor new
-map senzor new
-purge valve ,not new but ok
If you dont know the fuel pump is new,was the first thing what i change.
I put another throttle body,nothing.
I put from fuel pump a pipe up front to the fuel rail, nothing change.
I dismantled the ECU and i check the conection of all pins,nothing.
I do a test , when i try first time to start i help the engine with starting fluid spray, and slowly slowly she start at the first time.
Today i will change the oil senzor and the cam shaft senzor.
No erors at the tester.
See the 1-2-3-4 parameters when try to start , and 11-22-33-44 when the second or third try start ok.
I dont know what to do more, realy
Thursday i will try to change the manifold,why? Because i have one and whay not.Maybe i'm lucky.
If you have any idea guys ,share please.
Maybe i found what it is the problem and help comunity do not go through what I've been through.
Attachments
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I change the two sensor, oil and cam shaft .
Next mornig the car start ok, for the first try .
When the wife come back home a engine light is on.I put the tester and the DTC code is P0016.
I delete that error and start the engine again, nothing apear.
After that, the car stayed for 3 day without being started.Yesterday when i try , its start ok for the first time but after a few km the P0016 back.
I put back the old senzor and delete the error senzor.
Today when i try to start ,not working for the first time, the same problem from begin.
I will do more test, i will put back the new senzor, and try to start at the mornig, if it start ok for the first and the error code is back it mean the engine timing adjustment is nor corect.
Next week i will put a new timing kit and inspect if the old is in alingment.
:slayer:
Next mornig the car start ok, for the first try .
When the wife come back home a engine light is on.I put the tester and the DTC code is P0016.
I delete that error and start the engine again, nothing apear.
After that, the car stayed for 3 day without being started.Yesterday when i try , its start ok for the first time but after a few km the P0016 back.
I put back the old senzor and delete the error senzor.
Today when i try to start ,not working for the first time, the same problem from begin.
I will do more test, i will put back the new senzor, and try to start at the mornig, if it start ok for the first and the error code is back it mean the engine timing adjustment is nor corect.
Next week i will put a new timing kit and inspect if the old is in alingment.
:slayer:
cam
I start the car this way all the time,
Turn on to ignition(lights on)
WAIT until the pump has had a chance to prime and the ECU's settle, maybe 2-3 seconds or until many of the lights go out.
Now crank car over
You never know it may work?
Turn on to ignition(lights on)
WAIT until the pump has had a chance to prime and the ECU's settle, maybe 2-3 seconds or until many of the lights go out.
Now crank car over
You never know it may work?
trust me i try, i try much time ingnition for 1-4 and than to start.
What happens if you disconnect the temperature sensors then try starting?
dont remember if i try but i will try
I put a new sensor.
What i see , if i put the new cam shaft sensor, and drive ex.20 km, apear the p0016 erro.
With that error the car start ok.
I whait the tools what i bui it to check the timing.
And search to find somebody to do a remap ecu.
I put a new sensor.
What i see , if i put the new cam shaft sensor, and drive ex.20 km, apear the p0016 erro.
With that error the car start ok.
I whait the tools what i bui it to check the timing.
And search to find somebody to do a remap ecu.
Attachments
Hi,
I own a GP 1.4 Fire. Experiencing same phenomenon. If T-MAP sensor on the manifold disconnected, the engine starts in the first attempt. Had replaced the T-MAP sensor(aliexpress), still the issue persists. For some reason the ECM commands a lean mixture. Not able to figure it out the root cause. Still the issue persists.
I own a GP 1.4 Fire. Experiencing same phenomenon. If T-MAP sensor on the manifold disconnected, the engine starts in the first attempt. Had replaced the T-MAP sensor(aliexpress), still the issue persists. For some reason the ECM commands a lean mixture. Not able to figure it out the root cause. Still the issue persists.
yann
Member
the above symptoms are saying 'coolant temp sensor' to me? (only skimmed through posts sorry)...if this sensor hasnt been tested yet, have alook at the voltages on it (supply & reference)
hth-yann
hth-yann
I put a new coolant senzor.
Saturday i change de timing kit, after that the engine goes better (much round,better acc) but start problem persist.
Gangz i will try with disconected T-MAP, if u find enithing new tell me pls.I spend about 700 euro in parts.
I dont have any more hing to check in mind,i whant to test with smoke the intake gallery.
Saturday i change de timing kit, after that the engine goes better (much round,better acc) but start problem persist.
Gangz i will try with disconected T-MAP, if u find enithing new tell me pls.I spend about 700 euro in parts.
I dont have any more hing to check in mind,i whant to test with smoke the intake gallery.
Gangz
I do the test like u , twice, she start ok .Now will need to find what do this problem.
I change the senzor with another, not new , but OEM, the problem persist.
I do the test like u , twice, she start ok .Now will need to find what do this problem.
I change the senzor with another, not new , but OEM, the problem persist.
Hi,
Yes. Looks like there is an abnormal air-fuel mixture control by the Engine ECU based on the Intake temp/pressure. We need to find out the root cause. Next week am replacing thermostat assembly with coolant temp sensor for coolant leak concern from thermostat. I will update in case if situation improves after coolant sensor replacement though i am not suspecting the coolant sensor. Next month am visiting my hometown. I am planning to carry out further diagnosis. I will update you. Pls update in case if you are able to narrow down the root cause. Other than starting issue, the vehicle is just fine.
Yes. Looks like there is an abnormal air-fuel mixture control by the Engine ECU based on the Intake temp/pressure. We need to find out the root cause. Next week am replacing thermostat assembly with coolant temp sensor for coolant leak concern from thermostat. I will update in case if situation improves after coolant sensor replacement though i am not suspecting the coolant sensor. Next month am visiting my hometown. I am planning to carry out further diagnosis. I will update you. Pls update in case if you are able to narrow down the root cause. Other than starting issue, the vehicle is just fine.
Hy,
Now we are 3 guys with this engine, model, and we have the same problem :bang:
One guy say was at the fiat store/service, and after few days engineers nothing fiind wrong .
I try here in Romania to fiind somebody ho know to read the ECU setting, injection time at coold etc, but so far i haven't found .
If i dont fiind the only solution is to go in Stuttgard Germany , i have a guy there , but the distante in farr for me about 1800 km.
May be we fiind what is.Dont know,when was the car new dont this problem, the ecu software was the same ,har to think the ecu now need a change .:worship:
Now we are 3 guys with this engine, model, and we have the same problem :bang:
One guy say was at the fiat store/service, and after few days engineers nothing fiind wrong .
I try here in Romania to fiind somebody ho know to read the ECU setting, injection time at coold etc, but so far i haven't found .
If i dont fiind the only solution is to go in Stuttgard Germany , i have a guy there , but the distante in farr for me about 1800 km.
May be we fiind what is.Dont know,when was the car new dont this problem, the ecu software was the same ,har to think the ecu now need a change .:worship:
Hi,
I had replaced thermostat for coolant leak with coolant sensor. No change in starting issue. During scanning found Mixture related stored DTC's P1171, P1172. These are stored DTC's not a permanent one. There is a possibility for a defective lambda sensor. However it is not clear why only during starting the issue is faced if at all the lambda sensor is faulty. Need to find another car for swapping the suspected parts to establish the root cause.
I had replaced thermostat for coolant leak with coolant sensor. No change in starting issue. During scanning found Mixture related stored DTC's P1171, P1172. These are stored DTC's not a permanent one. There is a possibility for a defective lambda sensor. However it is not clear why only during starting the issue is faced if at all the lambda sensor is faulty. Need to find another car for swapping the suspected parts to establish the root cause.
Attachments
Hy,
May be the error apear after you out the map senzor ?
I check the diagram of the map senzor to the ECU plug, the same signal cam.
Dont know way the ECU see the engine is war for the first attempt,and order a lean mixture.
The value at the map sensor temperature is the same when engine is warm up,but normal the engine need more mixture for the first start,when coold engine.
Now i do some tests, try to increse the signal value ho goes at ECU, that i do with freze spray at the map sensor...Not tested yet but i do in 20 min.
Next morning i will Interrupt the temperature wire from map senzor , is the pin 2, to see if start ok.
https://www.fiatforum.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=4482441
May be the error apear after you out the map senzor ?
I check the diagram of the map senzor to the ECU plug, the same signal cam.
Dont know way the ECU see the engine is war for the first attempt,and order a lean mixture.
The value at the map sensor temperature is the same when engine is warm up,but normal the engine need more mixture for the first start,when coold engine.
Now i do some tests, try to increse the signal value ho goes at ECU, that i do with freze spray at the map sensor...Not tested yet but i do in 20 min.
Next morning i will Interrupt the temperature wire from map senzor , is the pin 2, to see if start ok.
https://www.fiatforum.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=4482441
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