Code reader…again

[porta]

I know this is a well traveled road but please bear with me:
I’ve got vehicles from a 2005 panda 4x4, a 2009 cross (daughters) my 2019 TA cross, wife’s 2016 renegade and also look after mates who have a 2014 1.2 500 and a 2018 1.2 500 as well as a 2018 2.3 ducato and a yucky 2023 Jeep compass…
So, I want/need a code reader that can span this lot without lugging a laptop around, and it’s a Mac so not compatible with a lot of stuff, although it reads and writes any Microsoft (and android) stuff without extra software
I have got a 2013 OBD generic code reader that’s ‘tired’ and simply can’t decide if it wants to work anymore, mostly says ‘computer says no’
I’ve traipsed through all the threads and, some like this some like the other…has anyone ever got to a consensus, or even a ballpark, as to good all rounder?

 

[porta]

I’m guessing, by the lack of response, that no one’s up for a well trodden argument either

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I have both VCDS (VAG-COM) for my VAG stuff and Multiecuscan for the FIATs but nothing more generic for the other family vehicles I look after. I've been half heartedly looking at OBD stuff which can run on my laptop - I like the big screen and better resolution of a laptop screen - and I've been quite attracted to this: https://www.enginecheck.co.uk/pro/ Not really a "cheap" option but looks pretty comprehensive to me and it's updates are free. It's one option which I'm intending to talk over with Grant at Gendan who has given me very helpful advice in the past. It would be useful if it can also actuate stuff like Evap valves and injectors etc. I like to be able to graph sensor outputs and I see they say it can do Oxygen sensor outputs but I need to know it can do all the rest.

 

[porta]

Cheers…I looked on their website and their ‘news’ section was last updated in 2014, which wasn’t encouraging…
The blurb for that looks quite comprehensive but, although stating the software says petrol from 2001 and diesel from 2004, the update doesn’t say till wehn (and it only got as far as 2006 for an award), and is a CD…not even a memory stick…I’d have to dig out my 2010 laptop for a cd drive!
Not that it would work as it requires Windows 10 or lower, that’s 2015 era and, according to MS Support, ‘In June 2021, Microsoft announced that support for Windows 10 editions (LTSC) will end on October 14, 2025.‘. So I don’t think it looks like that package would be relevant for very long, or even what year it has already become irrelevant

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Cheers…I looked on their website and their ‘news’ section was last updated in 2014, which wasn’t encouraging…
The blurb for that looks quite comprehensive but, although stating the software says petrol from 2001 and diesel from 2004, the update doesn’t say till wehn (and it only got as far as 2006 for an award), and is a CD…not even a memory stick…I’d have to dig out my 2010 laptop for a cd drive!
Not that it would work as it requires Windows 10 or lower, that’s 2015 era and, according to MS Support, ‘In June 2021, Microsoft announced that support for Windows 10 editions (LTSC) will end on October 14, 2025.‘. So I don’t think it looks like that package would be relevant for very long, or even what year it has already become irrelevant

I'd still be inclined to give them a ring though. Might be they'd recommend something else and their follow up support is second to none.

I made several calls to them before eventually buying Multiecuscan from them and they were very helpful and not at all pushy - even though I probably asked some pretty "silly" questions due to ignorance. I'm still in contact with Grant and have some very interesting email conversations with him from time to time.

 

[porta]

I'd still be inclined to give them a ring though. Might be they'd recommend something else and their follow up support is second to none.

I made several calls to them before eventually buying Multiecuscan from them and they were very helpful and not at all pushy - even though I probably asked some pretty "silly" questions due to ignorance. I'm still in contact with Grant and have some very interesting email conversations with him from time to time.

Yep, they do recommend a couple of products specifically for Fiat and, of course, the multi scan…I’m putting in a request for more information.
As an aside, we’ve a Gunsun just up the road, so I thought I’d give them a try, I noted their three products are rebadged Laser stuff and, lo and behold, they’re all the same company and look incredibly like those ‘unbranded’ stuff all over Amazon and eBay…except their ‘range topper’, which looks like iCarsoft one, that the key programmer had in the back of his van, wehn the wife decided to use the tractor topper to obliterate it

 

[porta]

Found out that Autel and Launch are the same product also, just their screens encased in different shaped and coloured plastics.
I like the iPad/tablet layout, but it seems they’re not the products they once were and, according to some reviews, are little more than code ‘scanners’ now

 

[porta]

Looks like I’m barking up the tree for iOS based solutions, even multiECUScan where they see us apple users as a cash cow.
I can get some pretty comprehensive ELM327 Bluetooth readers, with apps, but only seem to be fully supported in the USA and are not ‘available in UK region’. Those that ‘claim to be’ are effectively ELM Chinese clones and as reliable as our prime ministers.
So…I’m just going to go middle ground hand-held, so any reviews would be welcomed…

 

[varesecrazy]

Its definitely a minefield..

Work wanted to have connectivity to Korean vehicles... cheaper kit just didnt work as advertised..

the real kit looked and great worked well..WAS £2500..!!

Genuine is just 'dealer only'


MES is my default.... works well enough for me

Ive had a primitive device for @15 years..
Ive barely used it but has cleared LOTS of VAG errors on 'friends and family' vehicles


Foxwell seem to have a good name... but Ive not been looking for years

 

[porta]

Its definitely a minefield..

Work wanted to have connectivity to Korean vehicles... cheaper kit just didnt work as advertised..

the real kit looked and great worked well..WAS £2500..!!

Genuine is just 'dealer only'


MES is my default.... works well enough for me

Ive had a primitive device for @15 years..
Ive barely used it but has cleared LOTS of VAG errors on 'friends and family' vehicles


Foxwell seem to have a good name... but Ive not been looking for years

Cheers, yes the MES covers all I would need and more, I’m just never going back to Microsoft…I’ve just finished looking at foxwell, seem to have good write-ups and a review from Halfords lead to them selling them…so may give it a go

 

[porta]

I'd still be inclined to give them a ring though. Might be they'd recommend something else and their follow up support is second to none.

I made several calls to them before eventually buying Multiecuscan from them and they were very helpful and not at all pushy - even though I probably asked some pretty "silly" questions due to ignorance. I'm still in contact with Grant and have some very interesting email conversations with him from time to time.

Will give them a try tomorrow, hopefully, for a standalone handheld…ta

 

[s130]

Sorry for being late

I have MES, Foxwell NT301 and Enginecheck Pro.

As you wish ideally a handhelf and non MS/Windows then I would go for the Foxwell NT530 or if you have the budget maybe an NT680 model.

The NT301 I carry all the time in the car and only covers basic Engine stuff and enough to get you home. The 530 appears to be targeted a Fiat/Alfa specifically and the 680s cover more makes. With the 680s I note that on the oil change/reset they only cover Petrol engines so if you have a diesel then they won't do this. There is the 680Pro but that seems to not do the Oil Change Reset on Fiat/Alfa diesels.

If looks like the 530 will do the diesel Oil change reset.

Personally I would call Gendan directly and talk to them. They are very very helpful and I'm sure they will help you make the right choice at the right price. If you have a diesel engine then double check with them that the NT530 will do the oil change reset as well.

As with all diagnostic kit the devil is often in the detail at the lower end of the market. When you start paying £1000+ then most makes will do pretty much what the official vehicle manufacturer's kit will do.

LAST IMPORTANT POINT! Some later Fiats (info on the web and Gendan site) are equipped with the SGW (Security Gateway) which means that any write operation (include a simple fault code reset) are blocked unless you are connected to the Fiat servers. The SGW can be bypassed/removed but then a Fiat dealer will not be able to use their kit so if you are under warranty or want a Fiat dealers to work on your car then you will have to remove the SGW bypass.

 

[porta]

Yup…finding one does most everything is a tedious exercise, but I’m not buying a laptop just for MS compatibility as it would only get used for MES…unless I can liberate my late dads one from my mother, and not sure how upto date that is!

 

[AndyRKett]

Yup…finding one does most everything is a tedious exercise, but I’m not buying a laptop just for MS compatibility as it would only get used for MES…unless I can liberate my late dads one from my mother, and not sure how upto date that is!

Go on eBay and look for a Samsung NC10 circa 2010, more than enough power to run MES, and very small screen about 9.8inch something like that. They came with a fabric cover to keep them from getting scratched and protect them a bit. very small Atom Power PC that is perfect for MES.

I think they came with 1Gb of ram so worth sticking another 1Gb in there to maximize. They can run windows 10 but are best served with windows XP, which is a security risk these days, unless you never connect it to the internet, then its perfectly safe.

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[s130]

@AndyRKett makes a valid observation / pointer that second hand Windows devices can be had for little money.

IMHO assuming all works then reliability would be my next concern. Old PC devices can pack up with little or no warning and if you need toyr MES/other diagnostics as the same time the PC packs up then you have a problem.

At £10/£20 a shot for second hander older kit then I may be tempted to purchase two.

However you @porta have expressed an interest in being PC free and preferring a self contained device.

You really need to decide what level of "coverage" you require for your vehicle(s)? (which I note you have not disclosed/specified)

As before I suggest you research and at least talk to Gendan.

MES or Alfa OBD would be your cheapest and full coverage options (check to be sure) but these require a PC for best operability etc.)

 

[porta]

@AndyRKett makes a valid observation / pointer that second hand Windows devices can be had for little money.

IMHO assuming all works then reliability would be my next concern. Old PC devices can pack up with little or no warning and if you need toyr MES/other diagnostics as the same time the PC packs up then you have a problem.

At £10/£20 a shot for second hander older kit then I may be tempted to purchase two.

However you @porta have expressed an interest in being PC free and preferring a self contained device.

You really need to decide what level of "coverage" you require for your vehicle(s)? (which I note you have not disclosed/specified)

As before I suggest you research and at least talk to Gendan.

MES or Alfa OBD would be your cheapest and full coverage options (check to be sure) but these require a PC for best operability etc.)

@s130
Sorry, meant to ring gendan today, the afternoon went to pot and only just catching up, my initial post listed the ‘regular’ vehicles:
“I’ve got vehicles from a 2005 panda 4x4, a 2009 cross (daughters) my 2019 TA cross, wife’s 2016 renegade and also look after mates who have a 2014 1.2 500 and a 2018 1.2 500 as well as a 2018 2.3 ducato and a yucky 2023 Jeep compass…”. The Compass is off the list as it’s a hybrid, and under warranty, so not going near that.
I occasionally look at friends 2012 Clio, who I’ve just been asked to look at again, she’ll be upgrading again soon, only buys Renaults that are 2-3 years old…and my brothers have a Mito, Barchetta and a Merc (company lease car, luckily for me)
I seriously think folk I’m still in the trade and it’s getting increasingly difficult to trace faults with an AVO meter but no values to check against! If I thought that all my mates would buy all Fiat products, wehn even I wouldn’t, and if MES really was equally supported on Mac, then the choice would be easy.
To be honest most of the ‘diagnostic’ work has been through checking things like ERG, autoboxes, ABS sensors. temp and air-flow meters/sensors, it’s clearing the memory that’s been the issue. More in-depth diagnostic has been either on my vehicles or family/mates wehn a garage has done the ‘sharp intake of breath’ and I’ve done my own ‘digging’, usually with the forums help here AND Jeep, Renault, PSA and the dreaded VAG…and it’s getting harder for me to “guess what’s a standard fault for the marque”…whatever the result, they all leave with a warning light on that they still have to visit garage to have removed (since about 2019 wehn my old obd2 >2012/13< reader TS-15 started playing up then gave up the ghost)
I’m in agreement about using old/second hand tech and it’s one of the reasons I converted to Apple, I’m not having to replace the kit or software every two minutes, my original MacBook from 2005 still works, some of the keys are dodgy but I can still get a keyboard for it!

 

[AndyRKett]

I’m in agreement about using old/second hand tech and it’s one of the reasons I converted to Apple, I’m not having to replace the kit or software every two minutes, my original MacBook from 2005 still works, some of the keys are dodgy but I can still get a keyboard for it!

There’s a big difference between works and usable.

A 2005 apple laptop would be an iBook (the macbook name didn’t appear till the following year) and run a very old G4 processor. They haven’t made any new software for these for over 13 years and they’re barely be able to run modern webpages.

We still have a 2011 iMac and while it is still a perfectly serviceable Computer, apple have long stopped supporting it and the software is very out of date. While it’s possible to hack it to get a slightly newer OS on it, it would be much more easily installed with windows 10 and work with all x86 software past and present.

Since the 2005 iBook there has been something like 14 new versions of macOS in comparison there have only been 7 new versions of Windows.

because older macs run intel processors, you could probably run MES, on something like an old unibody MacBook core2duo from 2010, with a windows 10 installation. You can buy one of those old macs for about £25 on eBay

 

[s130]

Well here are some other alternatives:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B09SKQ6FV8

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B092MH5KRQ

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LAUNCH

LAUNCH

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[porta]

That’s great, thanks @s130 I’ll take a looksee
I’ve just dropped my Cherokee XJ for MoT, exhaust and tank straps at out indie Jeep garage (Hargreaves at Riddlesden if anyone needs one, I recommend them…they also do our Fiats). They use a Launch branded iCarsoft reader, it’s an older model, that cost them about £800…I want to sit in the £150-300, will be giving Gendan a call wehn wife picks me up

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Will give them a try tomorrow, hopefully, for a standalone handheld…ta

Please do let us know how you get on with Gendan. I've been very pleased with every contact I've had with them and they were very helpful when I was having trouble getting my MES set up on my win10 laptop. However that's just been my experience and it would be interesting to hear how you rate them.