Technical Clutch pedal going to floor, can't change gear

[cgranger]

As the title says my the clutch pedal on my Panda twinair 4x4 has started to stick on the floor. It then will not change gear. If I pull up the pedal the clutch starts working but the problem comes back again soon.
I am not loosing any fluid (level in the reservoir is where it should be and there are no signs of fluid on the floor where it is parked).
I am suspecting master or slave cylinder. Any suggestions on how to identify which is more likely and are there any guides on how to change them?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chris

 

[jrkitching]

How many miles has it done?

 

[cgranger]

How many miles has it done?

24K, and its a 2015 model.

 

[jrkitching]

24K, and its a 2015 model.

That's low mileage to be having clutch issues.

Do you know when the clutch fluid was last changed? There's not much of it, and it's known to deteriorate quickly (I first changed mine when the car was less than six months old, and have changed it annually since).

If you can do this for yourself, do it now; 500ml is plenty and it'll cost you less than a fiver.

 

[cgranger]

That's low mileage to be having clutch issues.

Do you know when the clutch fluid was last changed? There's not much of it, and it's known to deteriorate quickly (I first changed mine when the car was less than six months old, and have changed it annually since).

If you can do this for yourself, do it now; 500ml is plenty and it'll cost you less than a fiver.

It hasn't been changed in my ownership (3 years).
Do you think older fluid would cause a sudden and repeatable problem? I've had the same fluid in old Alfas for 15 years without any problems.
I would probably be able to replace it myself - where's the best place to drain it from. Anything I should look out for?
Thanks
Chris

 

[jrkitching]

where's the best place to drain it from

I'm not familiar with the TA, but I'd assume from the slave cylinder - on the 1.2, removing the battery and tray gives much better access, but it can be done with both in situ.

Do you think older fluid would cause a sudden and repeatable problem?

It's a long shot, but it's cheap, easy, and if it hasn't been done for over three years, needs doing anyway.

The problem is that the fluid absorbs water, and because there's only a small volume of it, it doesn't take that much to overwhelm the inhibitors in the fluid. Once that happens, the steel parts in the system start to corrode. Tiny particles of corrosion get mixed in the fluid, and they're abrasive, so lead to rapid wear of the seals. The giveaway is if you see black discolouration in the fluid when bleeding. A similar thing can happen with the brake circuits, and in that case, you also have the additional risk of lowering the boiling point of the fluid. The usual recommendation is to change the fluid in both at least once every two years.

All that said, you also need to consider the possibility that a mechanical part in either the pedal assembly or clutch actuating mechanism has become worn, fractured or bent. I'd start by operating the pedal by hand and observing carefully what happens - being a contortionist is a definite advantage here.

It's low mileage for a problem inside the bellhousing, but it has happened before, so don't rule this out completely, particulaly if you don't know the full driving history of the car. I once had an inherited company car with <20k on the clock and the clutch was totally ruined.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Important!
On the post 2012 Panda there is not a separate reservoir for clutch fluid - it shares the brake fluid. (On the older 169 model there was a separate small reservoir). So in theory the fluid is replaced every two years when the brake fluid’s changed. Don’t try draining it! You’ll empty the brake circuit too.

 

[jrkitching]

Important!
On the post 2012 Panda there is not a separate reservoir for clutch fluid - it shares the brake fluid.

Oops - my mistake.

 

[A3jeroen]

But even if it's one reservoir (as my RHD's do) fluid in the clutch stays in this system when brakefluid is replaced and bled. You still need to bleed the old fluid out at the slavecilinder to get the old stuff out. As we all know it attracts water and when left introduces rust and rubber deterioration.

gr J