Technical Clutch bleed nipple

[somyunguy]

Hi guys, I'm starting to lose my rag with this thing - I can't find the clutch bleed nipple - not as I know a bleed nipple to be that is.

I've had the master out , it's a crappy plastic thing and worse , a new one is ludicrously expensive here , from the agents , and the pattern parts I'm told are'nt worth having.

So i've stripped cleaned and inspected , reassembled and now trying to bleed the critter.

Guess what - no sign of a bleed nipple as I know one. It's not my first rodeo either btw.

I can feel something that feels like a blanking plug - Allen grub screw - pehaps??

And before anybody jumps on me , I have searched the threads to some degree but can't find a definitive answer.

I'm trying to avoid stripping the battery box out for the moment , I have small hands , so i can get in there - only just - but no sign of a bleed nipple???

Help please - a pic would be useful if anyone has one. Thanks!

 

[somyunguy]

My bad chaps , I have found something , still does'nt tell how one attaches a bleed pipe to it though. I'll dig a bit more. Thanks!

 

[DaveMcT]

Before anyone bites, I realise the owner is not in UK. However it should be possible to get the parts posted out.

I had the same slave access problem. The only way was to take out the car battery and it's holding case. At least you get to see any corrosion and sort it out. Be rueful with the electoral able clips. There are more than a few.

The slave bleed nipple is basically a socket grub screw. One of mine had rusted and could not be removed - That scrapped the slave cylinder. Yours might be like that. Who can say until you get access to look at it.

However, I believe the problems are almost always at the master cylinder end. Worn seals suck in air and before long the pedal goes to the floor. Bleeding the system gives a temporary fix. Fiat OEM parts with pre-filled fluid are ridiculous money and that QD connector above the gearbox is often too corroded to use.

You can get cast metal or fabricated steel clutch master cylinders for under £60. I fitted a Borg & Beck cast version that cost about £55. But you have to bleed at the slave so if the nipple is badly rusted, that has to go as well. Costs are around £35 if you shop carefully.

| eBay

Product details. Product label. Bore Ø [mm] 15.87. TecDoc details.

www.ebay.com

 

[koalar]

On the slave

 

[koalar]

However, I believe the problems are almost always at the master cylinder

Diagnose it. Instead of guessing or changing everything

I would just spay some grease under the slave cylinder rubber boot

If the problem gets better I would be confident in just the slave a 10 minute job

As per at happened at least a dozen times on here

A good 95% will need nothing else why waste time and money unnecessarily

These car are now old but still very cheap to run as long as you only change the worn out parts.

 

[irc]

On the slave

View attachment 410878

Here's a picture of one (just happened to have it in my hand!)

The hex grubscrew has a snapped-off Allen key stuck in it.
Shiny bleed pipe is visible.
Theory is slightly loosen the grub screw and bleed through the bleed pipe.
Unfortunately air normally gets sucked in past the grub screw on pattern parts.

 

[somyunguy]

Thanks guys , much appreciated. Yes , correct I am not in the UK , I am in South Africa , that 60Gbp price is still reasonable via conversion .
The price here for the genuine Fiat unit , and as I understand it, it's just the master , is 168.22 Sterling .
It's ludicrously expensive and even the pattern part is much the same albeit at half the price but i'm told by a reputable CBS fellow that they won't fit them because it always bites them in the butt a few months down the line. It's a weeks salary for some of us.

For those interested , the master -obviously- is not a repairable part , however , it shares a common bore size with Toyota's and certain VW's , my plan is to manufacture a new piston to the same dimensions etc as the non repairable unit - have lathe and know how - and retrofit with available rubber seals 15.87 mm diameter.
For the interim I have cleaned and inspected and re-assembled , it appears that the front seal is Teflon?? maybe , while the rear seal , closest to the dust boot is rubber. I should point out that it was not a total failure , more a sticky pedal that made driving a little challenging.
The internal bore shows absolutely no sign of wear unlike if it had been steel or Aluminium.

As to the slave , fortunately , the car has had an easy life mostly and corrosion is not really an issue , I would expect that the slave ,also being plastic, is much the same as the master.
It's a tight squeeze but now that I know what I'm looking for, I should be able to get at both the nipple and stop screw to pressure bleed the system.

 

[koalar]

more a sticky pedal that made driving a little challenging.

Very common here in the UK

95% are slave

The slave piston jams in the bore stopping the return spring from pushing it back

I appears that over time most of the grease gets pushed out and what’s left dries up

There is a plastic C clip that can be pushed out and the piston removed

Here’s mine

 

[somyunguy]

Very common here in the UK

95% are slave

The slave piston jams in the bore stopping the return spring from pushing it back

I appears that over time most of the grease gets pushed out and what’s left dries up

There is a plastic C clip that can be pushed out and the piston removed

Here’s mine



View attachment 410883View attachment 410884

That's encouraging to see , I have to say , it looks like the seal is at least replaceable on your's.

 

[koalar]

That's encouraging to see , I have to say , it looks like the seal is at least replaceable on your's.

Correct

The seal is normally fine. It’s this end that jams. If you look closely you will see it’s scored and is now very tight in the cylinder

It’s only a guide to stop the piston from tipping. Should be easy to fix with the help of a lathe

From factory they are greased (white silicone I beloved) over time it all gets pushed out

Now here in the UK it’s about £20 to replace.

 

[somyunguy]

Correct

The seal is normally fine. It’s this end that jams. If you look closely you will see it’s scored and is now very tight in the cylinder

It’s only a guide to stop the piston from tipping. Should be easy to fix with the help of a lathe

From factory they are greased (white silicone I beloved) over time it all gets pushed out

Now here in the UK it’s about £20 to replace.

View attachment 410887

Should be an easy fix - here they they are around 4 times as expensive. I think the Chrysler affiliation is being capitalised on here as just about anything for a Panda is stupid expensive here, agents or factors , it's the same.

 

[DaveMcT]

Here's a new master that looks the same as I used on my car. OP can contact the seller to ask how delivery can be done.

Clutch master cylinder (15,87mm) fits: ABARTH 500 / 595 / 695, 500C / 595C / 695 | eBay

1.3 D Multijet (312AYA1A) 312 B5.000 2016/06 - n/a 57 78 1248 change. 500 (312_). Production years. 1.3 D Multijet (312AXE1A) 312 B1.000, 199 B1.000 2009/12 - n/a 70 95 1248 change. 500 C (312_). 0.9 (312AXN1A) 312 A5.000 2013/12 - n/a 59 80 875 change.

www.ebay.com

Here's a new slave

Slave Cylinder, clutch for FIAT LANCIA:500,IDEA,MUSA,500 C,PUNTO 46547126 | eBay

350 A1.000. 312 A4.000. 169 A4.000. 1.2l, 51kw, 69hp, Petrol Engine. 1.2 LPG (312CXA1A). PANDA VAN (312_, 519_). 1.2 (312CXA1A, 312DXA1A). 312 A2.000.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Yolanda]

I've just fitted one I got via Amazon for under 25 quid but it was cyl only, no pipe.