General Chassis Plate and Rivets

[Vitesse]

Yes, the plate on my L had a space and colour code on it. As it happened that car had originally been Positano but was now a bright Bianca

Yes I just noticed one of Peter’s shows it Ian and the other doesn’t.

Did a bit more digging around on the fiat 500 forum in Italy. Apparently the OMOLOGAZIONE Number identifies whether the car is an N, D, F, L or R. The code for an F is IGM 3890 OM and working on that assumption from the picture Ian posted of his D IGM 114* OM (I can’t read the last number looks like a 6 or an 8?) must be a D.

I quote from the Italian forum “NUMBER FOR SPARE PARTS: this is practically impossible to find because it refers to the specific series built. I think they do not even know it in FIAT“.

 

[Vitesse]

Oh just found out another post that suggests an F and L had the same OMOLOGAZIONE code.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

N's don't have an OMOLOGAZIONE code...

most the things said about the production make sense chassis number stamped in before assembled...
I would say the Alloy Plate would have been stamped at the end...
When a finalish check was made...
As you would have to really manually stamp the Engine number etc..
so little point stamping the chassis number then making sure you could find the car with that number, loose a car and it could take ages to find a white Fiat 500.
then finding it's engine number..
The engine could be changed along the production line if a fault was found or such...
From the info I have on N's chassis number do tend to follow a serial sequence...
but two cars say 100 numbers apart have engine numbers that bear no resemblance to a sequence

 

[F123C]

If any one has an original Fiat Spare Parts Catalog (this is what it's called on the cover) as supplied to a Dealership, inside the front cover there often was a card/page giving a list of Model Versions and Variants numbers used throughout the part catalogue.
Version No. could be e.g. 05 for RHD, 06 for LHD
followed by
Variant No. indicated certain equipment fitted or market destination e.g. iirc Speedometer in Miles was 13, UK was 34, Australia was 49, Sweden was 38.etc.
(I'm not sure if the above examples applied to the 500 as they are for the 124 Sport).

The 'number for spares' seemed to have been used when determining which part to order when a modified part had been introduced. The part would be listed under a Modification Table with effectiveness shown as > vett. n. .... (up to vehicle with number for spares.....) or > mot. n. ..... ( up to engine No. ......) . For parts used from a particular 'number for spares' or from engine No. the > was placed after the No.

So the 'number for spares' was important, sometimes!

Al.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

If any one has an original Fiat Spare Parts Catalog

I will see If I can obtain a copy or as a minimum the Model Version numbers for the 500s..
If the people I know don't have one then it is going to be something to look for...

 

[fiat500]

Is the chassis-plate and firewall-stamping of this number placed on the passenger side of the vehicle dependent on the handedness of the vehicle? I notice that it seems to be the opposite of on LHD vehicles.
Can you develop Asperger's Syndrome as an adult? (with no disrespect meant to those people who have this).

 

[IanEmery]

Is the chassis-plate and firewall-stamping of this number placed on the passenger side of the vehicle dependent on the handedness of the vehicle? I notice that it seems to be the opposite of on LHD vehicles.
Can you develop Asperger's Syndrome as an adult? (with no disrespect meant to those people who have this).

I can only help with one of your questions;

The plate and firewall stamping is on the UK drivers’ side on my LHD cars, ie on the left when looking into the bonnet.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

The plate and firewall stamping is on the UK drivers’ side on my LHD cars, ie on the left when looking into the bonnet.

Same with all the RHD and LHD N's I have encountered on Left looking from the front that is...
Given the positioning on all the cars I have seen I would however agree with an earlier post that perhaps the Firewall Number is machine stamped during production and automatically incremented, as they seem to be the same position..

 

[fiat500]

Same with all the RHD and LHD N's I have encountered on Left looking from the front that is...
Given the positioning on all the cars I have seen I would however agree with an earlier post that perhaps the Firewall Number is machine stamped during production and automatically incremented, as they seem to be the same position..

....however not the case with "F" and I guess, "L" models, as the stamping and the plate are on the right ( as seen from that position).

 

[Bigvtwin996]

....however not the case with "F" and I guess, "L" models, as the stamping and the plate are on the right ( as seen from that position).

Well I never...
I guess that was to make the Original 500s with the doors opening the correct way much more exclusive...

when is Sean going to join us again.. being in the possession of a early car (although one of the later mass produced ones) and a latter one could simply draw up a table of differences save us all the trouble....

I could see if Tom will join in If start mentioning this type of numbering...

 

[fiat500]

Well I never...
I guess that was to make the Original 500s with the doors opening the correct way much more exclusive...

I suppose there was some use to the early prototype cars made until 1960 in that it allowed Fiat to eliminate all of the slight design errors that the lack of CAD had made unavoidable. By the time they were rolling into the late 1960's and early '70's they were making a very nice car at last.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

I suppose there was some use to the early prototype cars

Prototype.. ahh yes I know...

This one.....


Designed by Hans Peter Bauhof in 1953 while working at the Deutsche-Fiat Plant - Weinberger, (think he worked at that German Car company previously that was popular arround then...) he sent the design to a guy in Italy called.. hang on.... just can't remember his name.... on the tip of my tongue... well known for designing some small 2 cylinder Italian car...... mmmmmmmmm

"It was rear engine but 2 stroke... Dante liked the design as it would not affect sales of their 4 seater family car the 600 but did not like the engine...

So as he was "Project Head" he set about designing the new engine... but because it was taking so long to design the engine the Fiat 500 was not launched till 1957"

 

[fiat500]

Designed by Hans Peter Bauhof in 1953 while working at the Deutsche-Fiat Plant - Weinberger,

So H.P.B. really designed the most iconic feature of the car? that was in 1953? and he was ......German?
Just typical of how history is written by the powerful people.
Nice to know that something so brilliant was designed by someone called Peter.

PS. Even more little-known fact; Bauhof means Builder's Yard.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

So H.P.B. really designed the most iconic feature of the car? that was in 1953? and he was ......German?

I could never say such a thing.. that would be like rewriting History..

Remember in another Post how I sad wasn't it interesting the similarity of the Fiat 500 body shape and the VW Beetle when we were discussing cooling........, both air cooled.... Nahh it's just a co-incidence surely..

I may change my name to Hercule and become French (lol)

 

[Bigvtwin996]

Or was it this Prototype...

 

[Vitesse]

So H.P.B. really designed the most iconic feature of the car? that was in 1953? and he was ......German?
Just typical of how history is written by the powerful people.
Nice to know that something so brilliant was designed by someone called Peter.

PS. Even more little-known fact; Bauhof means Builder's Yard.

So the iconic 500 was actually designed by a German bloke called John Peter Builders Yard? Not very glamorous is it

 

[Bigvtwin996]

So the iconic 500 was actually designed by a German bloke called John Peter Builders Yard? Not very glamorous is it

Nooo he could not have done that being a lowly technician.. his was only an idea,
It seems a bit like people who write songs lift a bass line from an older track by that of say Marvin Gaye...

In 1953, the technician from Heilbronn submitted his proposal (which appears somewhat rustic from the pictures that still remain) for a small car with a single cylinder, 2-stroke engine derived from a motorcycle which, in Giacosa’s words, was ‘unsuitable for the car that Fiat wanted to build". But Bauhof’s ‘ideas for the construction of the bodywork’ were appreciated in Turin. Bauhof also sent a prototype to Turin, which Giacosa found ‘interesting for its simplicity’, but the rest of the company considered it ‘too superficial and insufficient as a car’.
When Bauhof’s proposal to use a motorcycle engine had been discarded, Giacosa continued to work on the 500 project...

 

[F123C]

Oh just found out another post that suggests an F and L had the same OMOLOGAZIONE code.

N's don't have an OMOLOGAZIONE code...

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Correct me if I'm wrong but iirc the Homologation number (OMOLOGAZIONE)
was to show a certain number of cars were produced within a certain period of time so that the manufacturer could use that car/engine/certain other parts in Motorsport Competition.

E.g. Ferrari wanted to use their V6 engine in Formula 2 in 1967 but couldn't build 500 (verified by the rule-makers at the time the CSI (Commission Sportive Internationale) in one year. 500 engines no problem but 500 cars not likely!
Ferrari did a deal with Fiat to use their V6 engine in order to meet the 500 engines per year requirement (as evidenced by the Omologazione Number).
And so was born the Fiat Dino!
This engine was also used later in the Lancia Stratos.
(The later Fiat 130 engine was a Fiat design quite different to that of the Dino.)

Motorsport levels below F2 iirc required much more than 500 units per year.
So perhaps Fiat (or Abarth?) needed to produce/homologate the Fiat 500 in order to use the car or certain parts in Motorsport events during the reign of the F and L but no longer needed to by the time the N model was produced, so dropped the Omologazione No. ?

I hope I didn't bore you guys with the history lesson

AL.

 

[Bigvtwin996]

I hope I didn't bore you guys with the history lesson

Certainly didn't bore me...

but the N was the first model.... there will of course be a "OMOLOGAZIONE" as it was for a 2 seat car, so as not to clash with the 600, but it just wasn't stamped on the Alloy plate.
I believe whilst the first "Carlo Abarth modifications were on an N but not as a Fiat produced car, but a privateer racer (like John Cooper Garages Racing modifications to Minis) the Actual Fiat Abarth 500s started later during D production (I'm sure someone with clearer Abarth knowledge can confirm the First real Factory Abarth car)

Similar reasons which you really need to understand car construction laws of the late 1950s in Italy is the reason that the standard response regarding Jollys from the Italians "in the know" is "Fiat 500 Jolly Ghias were made from 1957 - 1960 based on the 500 N there are one or two based on the early D cars".

So that 1967 Jolly that someones Uncle took to Ghia Design Studio and they converted it seems rather strange as a Car Designs Studio don't generally do jobs for the general public who knock on their door. "earrr mate can you make my car into a Jolly please?"
add to that there is no sales Brochure for anything other than a Jolly based on a 500N (other than the 600 Jollys)

 

[fiat500]

Remember in another Post how I sad wasn't it interesting the similarity of the Fiat 500 body shape and the VW Beetle when we were discussing cooling........, both air cooled.... Nahh it's just a co-incidence surely..

Definitely not a co-incidence but the sort of "co-incidence" that has followed cars around since Fred Flintstone first made his car out of granite.

The name Hercule would suit you but I prefer "Edward Elephant". Check out the Peppa Pig stories if you want to know why. Clue.....( He's a clever-clogs apparently).