Technical cant beleave it, engine bad knocking sound.

[DaveMcT]

It does sound a bit odd, but, the accessory belt tensioner is a pig to fit and otherwise drops in at an angle, so it could get mangled.

If the cam belt did not actually fall off you might be ok. But teeth can strip (mine did)

Get the garage to check the cams and valves before they properly fit the new belt. Maybe fit the new belt and do a compression test before they box everything up.

I was happy with Shop4Parts so when you know what's needed give them a call.

 

[130bhp blowing]

whitesei..the water belt and tensioner and the thing that the teeth have striped. thay are suppling these for me as thay are a fiat specialist.

also will be going to the garage in the morning so i will be see and asking them about the the valves and stuff...

will let you no tomorrow. once again cheers for the info and help here......

oh dose £300 sound about for these parts to be replace and labor.

 

[130bhp blowing]

right been to the garage today like i said and i was speaking to the guy who is sorting out my car and he showed me all the new parts thats been fitted so far like new belts and tensioner and other bit. also the timing was all put back right and said thay have try to start it but it wouldnt start up so thay done a compression test and ther is no compression in all for cylinders, so he said he will have to remove the head tomorrow cause if ther is no compression it meen some of the valves have bent or pistons are damaged, will just have to wait and see and hope for the best.....

just need my car christmas is coming up...

 

[HgtBill]

You'll have to replace the shells if the pistons have met the valves.

 

[130bhp blowing]

o.k wot do you meen by shells...

 

[DaveMcT]

My HGT stripped it timing belt teeth and bent 6 exhaust valves - two badly and 4 only enough to show when I blued the seats. I replaced all 8 as a precaution.

The pistons were unmarked (apart from some carbon rubbed off) so there was no reason to replace any bearing shells. I can see no reason why the bearings would be affected - they have not been oil - starved.

Some engines can hit hard enough to damage pistons and even con-rods so these would require and engine strip anyway. But even then, I cant see why the main the bearings (or cam bearings) should be damaged.

My major hassle was getting the head off and then cleaning out the oil so it would not dribble all over the new head gasket.

Its well worth fitting a full set of new valve guide seals. They harden with age and lead to oil burning. Its not worth avoiding that when the head has to be stripped down. I also fitted new cam shaft seals.

 

[130bhp blowing]

just hoping ther aint that much damaged been done will fined out hopfully tomorrow or friday when i get around to going to the garage were it being sorted....

some peaple say money aint every think but it helps...lol..

 

[130bhp blowing]

had a phone call from the garage today who doing my car and thay said sub total around for doing the car will be £975 and thats 100% done with a years tickit if any think was to go wrong i take it back.

thats for the new tensioner water belt thats just been fitted,

this is to be done,

remove head £60, remove valves from the other head i given them as thay said thay may have to be removed cause when it gets skimmed thay mite be sticking out abit and replace valves, new gaskit set£100, new head bolts £50, new oil & oil filter £45, new water coolent £10, and some other bits and bobs cant remeber, this will come to around £975. thats if the other head i give them fits,

if it dont then it will cost me more as i will have to have my head bilt back up with new valves and springs he said..

so wot im asking dose the price sound wright ,

and also has any one removed a head from a 2000 year hgt and replace it with a head from a 2001 hgt, are the heads the same as ther is a year diffrents in engine,,

 

[fingers99]

The pistons were unmarked (apart from some carbon rubbed off) so there was no reason to replace any bearing shells. I can see no reason why the bearings would be affected - they have not been oil - starved.

Some engines can hit hard enough to damage pistons and even con-rods so these would require and engine strip anyway. But even then, I cant see why the main the bearings (or cam bearings) should be damaged.

The bearings are the soft spot. Essentially this is the same engine as in the Alfa 155 (et al). The Alfisti will tell you that the bearing shells actually get squashed a little if the pistons meet a valve (and it's difficult to think of a case where no compression on all cylinders hasn't been caused by that). So, an engine re-assembled without the shells at least being checked will be likely to develop a bottom end knock.

 

[CRYSTAL]

A knocking engine means the engine is very close to being scrap metal. This could be a good thing though. If you put a new engine in it and get the transmission rebuilt at same time you know you have something good.

 

[HgtBill]

The bearings are the soft spot. Essentially this is the same engine as in the Alfa 155 (et al). The Alfisti will tell you that the bearing shells actually get squashed a little if the pistons meet a valve (and it's difficult to think of a case where no compression on all cylinders hasn't been caused by that). So, an engine re-assembled without the shells at least being checked will be likely to develop a bottom end knock.

Exactly, someone who know's these engine :slayer:. It even states it in the workshop manual.

 

[DaveMcT]

Well mine got new valves and nothing done to the bottom end. The engine now has 2000 miles under its belt and no signs of trouble.

I can imagine that a belt snapping at high speed might put more force on the internals, but a belt losing teeth or slipping (like 130bhp Blowing's) causes the cam timing to lag more and more so the valves and piston touch. In my case most of the valves were not visibly bent by two were obviously bent. The all had multiple touches before the engine stopped.

All crank bearings have soft shells allowing the parts to bed in with use and why oil starvation is so destructive. But I still dont believe that a valve touching will damage the crank shells without severe damage to the pistons. As said, a catastophic cam belt failure might be enough but generally this is not what happens and such a failure would almost certainly smash the pistons.

The price quoted looks about right to me. I spent at least 1/2 that on parts and the job was really fiddly to do so there will be a high labour cost.

 

[fingers99]

People do get lucky. Let's hope so in this case. Poor man has had enough.

Nevertheless, the recommended proceedure is to check the check the shells: cases of engines knocking when the shells have not been attended to are legion.

They are tricky engines to work on -- that's why HGTs (and Alfa Twin Sparks) are worth next to nothing when the belt comes off.

 

[130bhp blowing]

well guys it like this..heads off and you mite as well say all the ****ing valves are bent i couldnt beleave it when i saw them it looked liked some one had got them and bent them (BIG) time. so i have to replace 16 new valves thay are not cheap.. any way for the pistons thay are all fine. so thats made me feel abit better. and the garage has had alook at the bottom end off the engine and all fine too.. so im happy abit as it could of been more damage done to the engine...any way the head in the shop now having it skimmed and presser tested and valves have been ordered so along with new head bolts, new gaskit set, new water pump, new belt, and every think else.......

head should be back along with every think else monday or tuesday
then will go from ther....

 

[DaveMcT]

Seriously ferkin bad luck and to think this was all because the original garage goofed up on the cam belt change. With all that damage the new guys were right to check the bottom end. In comparison, mine was gently "rapped".

 

[130bhp blowing]

whitesei..i no tell me about it bad luck aint the word, but yip bottom end all good thank god. just cant wait to have it back on road,

just waiting un till monday tuesday till the head back then go from ther ay,

 

[DaveMcT]

Good luck. Get a look inside if you can - I was impressed with the engine's build quality.

 

[130bhp blowing]

.... £1330.63.....thats the price of my car to be repaired. hopfully may be geting it back tomorrow as it been in the garage over two weeks.