can it be too big?

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can it be too big?

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ashley h

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i buy a lot of useless junk off of ebay , got this bmc air filter, brand new last week for £12, it is massive,the pics dont do it justice,anyway i was bored yesterday so i thought id try and make it fit for a laugh, drove 100 miles to work and back today and it is sooo loud its now pissing me off. is it bad for the engine to let too much air in?

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mate, i have to take the wheel and **** shield off to fit my BMC CDA to my HGT so i wont have any of your wining on here!lol...as far as i know there is no limit to what the engine can suck in, the less restrictive the better! as for the noise, whats wrong with the 5cylinder song! :(

Paul R
 
are they that big? ive been looking at them on ebay for awhile- expensive!, was gonna buy one on there for a clio 182 and make it fit my hgt. do they sound sweet? any performance gains?
 
they sound really nice, the noise you hear when the car accelerates towards you is unreal! (a mate drove my car once and it was the first time i ever heard it outside (different sound from inside) and i couldnt believe it was mine, i was very proud :), performance wise, i couldnt tell you just yet.

i will say that my old hgt with a full stainless and bmc cda felt alot quicker then my new totally standard hgt but then again this engine just might not be as good? who knows?

and yes they really are that big!lol...

PAul R
 
yes you can have too much air.

I would suggest a run on a rolling road dyno with a gas analyser.

The lambda sensor injection system will compensate for mild differences in intake size, but if its working from the standard map it won't be perfect and may not have enough "range" of adjustment to compensate for the massive increase in air flow.
 
The engine will only ever suck in as much air as it needs. You can't have 'too much air'.
 
it might only suck in as much air as it needs to fill the cylinder......but if it doesn't add enough fuel........too much air.
 
Thats what the lambda is for plus on acceleration the it runs rich anyway.
 
As standard fuel injection runs lean to reduce emissions. It also (on very clever systems or powerful cars) alters fueling in lets say .....first and second.... to make the engine more drivable by reducing power that couldn't be used due to loss of traction.

It will also have been adjusted to run poorly or very lean at certain revs to help it pass noise tests.

The injection settings from factories are a compromise of noise, emissions, fuel economy. Not the ideal for the engine.

The standard map will only have a wide enough range to cover certain mods.

If you add a great big air filter and a big bore exhaust you can easily take the fueling past the limits of the injection systems ability to cope (the "map").

If this were not the case why would there be such a huge market in re-mapping/re-chipping + dyno/rolling roads and tuning.

All you would need to do was buy a load of stuff off halfords and bolt it on, let the injection take care of it.

Ask any dyno operator/tuner.
 
"Ask any dyno operator/tuner."

You called :) (although most of my work has been with carb'd cars)

Most ECUs don't know what gear is being used so thats a non-issue.

The map does not normally determine the possible tuning range of the closed loop system. Thats usually determined by the control program. Without these limits it could really screw things up. The map is really just the starting point.

But you are missing a couple of rather important factors.

1) If an engine was running too lean it would fail emissions.

2) everything you've mentioned really only applied to steady state running, ie fixed RPM. The moment you alter the throttle settings the ECU goes open loop. Emissions are measured at a fixed RPM plus lambda sensors are too slow to react to the quickly changing RPM. You HAVE to add more fuel on acceleration otherwise the engine stutters, this is what the accelerator pump does on a carb.

(most ECUs sample the lambda reading once every 0.5 to 1 second)

3) ignition timing :) Power is determined by more than just fuel. The timing self adjustment on most ECUs is either nonexistant or VERY limited and is usually set for hot air and cheap fuel.

Tuning is a combination of fuel AND ignition. Hence the market for chips, piggyback ECUs etc.. If it was just down to fueling it would be an easy job.
 
so are we all aggreed that it will not damage my engine in any way!
 
Touchay turtle!

I like it :)

Excellent thread guys. Kinda thing I love reading..learn loads with each retort.

The guy who has my mule back in his sinister clutches at the mo, reckons (is trying blame - amongst other things) my exhaust and viper induction for poor performance.

I don't know what his criticisms of the exhaust actually are - I've told him the plot I had done left little doubt it improved performance significantly, and he says the tight bend in my induction feed where i've got it going down to the front grill by what i call the bulkhead, may not be doing it any favours either. He suggested merely directing a cold feed at the filter as many of you have done may improve it (although again, I KNOW that filter made a great difference too!)

I got some new 3" stuff for my induction feed pipe though (as the old wiring has rusted) so that'll go in just as soon as I can muster the motivation - just as soon as I get my car and working properly (looks a distant possibility even now!..could be weeks at this bloody rate).

If that bit of a bend in the hose could be quite a hindrance, and 3" wide only gestures towards compensating for the restriction, I'd been considering doing the mother of all ram air feeds (already designed it) for the bumper (whilst up til now - I've left the openng of the cold feed side on in the grill to avaoid the issue of rain and roadsray flying right up the hose!) I'm consious I don't want to starve the rad of it's cold air though, so I may only do it just to see what difference it makes (and take it off before the summer ends - if it ever arrives!)
 
Re: Touchay turtle!

The easiest thing to blame is the thing thats different.

Look at the route of the intake manifold after the throttle body, it does about a 270deg bend before the cyl head.
 
Re: Touchay turtle!

Guess I wouldn't have that problem if I drove an automatic.

Then I'd have something else to wiggle!

LOL!
 

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