Technical Cambelt, you may want to get it swapped…

[Batius finkius]

Based on the Fiat recommendation for change date/mileage my cambelt on the 1.6 diesel it isn’t due for at least a year and many 10s of thousands of miles. However, I am a cautious chap and I don’t like the idea of the number of stop/starts the car does straining the belt and a long change time listed so I’ve had it done. And it’s a good job I did…

The water pump had the beginning of a leak (1cm diameter dried coolant crystals) and the bearing had some play in it. I‘ve not notice any significant loss of coolant or noises but clearly, despite not being due a swap (by many miles!) the water pump wasn’t too long for this world. The tensioner and idler pulleys were all ok.

Just a heads up if you have a few miles/years on yours, you might want to keep a very close eye on the coolant level or consider an earlier belt swap.

 

[bugsymike]

Based on the Fiat recommendation for change date/mileage my cambelt on the 1.6 diesel it isn’t due for at least a year and many 10s of thousands of miles. However, I am a cautious chap and I don’t like the idea of the number of stop/starts the car does straining the belt and a long change time listed so I’ve had it done. And it’s a good job I did…

The water pump had the beginning of a leak (1cm diameter dried coolant crystals) and the bearing had some play in it. I‘ve not notice any significant loss of coolant or noises but clearly, despite not being due a swap (by many miles!) the water pump wasn’t too long for this world. The tensioner and idler pulleys were all ok.

Just a heads up if you have a few miles/years on yours, you might want to keep a very close eye on the coolant level or consider an earlier belt swap.

Always good to keep an ear open for any strange noises , also any drop in water coolant level.
Manufacturers cambelt change intervals are only a guide!!!

 

[Batius finkius]

It is only a guide, but mine was well under the guide levels and wasn’t showing any signs of distress and was still far more ruined than I was expecting! Regular checks folks!

 

[bugsymike]

It is only a guide, but mine was well under the guide levels and wasn’t showing any signs of distress and was still far more ruined than I was expecting! Regular checks folks!

I had a customer who had a C8 Citroen, dealer serviced from new, belt failed well under their recommended limits destroying engine, no redress!!!

 

[tolisgri]

how many kilometers so far are we talking about?

 

[bugsymike]

It was several years ago now but at least 20,000 Miles under Citroen recommended interval and always serviced at the dealers.
At the time, in France they were replacing the engines under warranty, but not in England!

 

[uksdsgl]

I agree – we should regularly check coolant level and water pump.

My Tipo 1.6 MultiJet manual had done 38,000 miles and was 4 years old when I bought it in April 2021.

I immediately had the cam belt and water pump replaced with OEM parts.

During November 2021 I had to add over a litre of water to the coolant. My mechanic could not find the cause of this coolant loss. The coolant level was always good before and after this coolant loss.

In August 2022, 16 months and 14,000 miles after replacement the water pump failed shredding the cam belt and damaging all 16 rockers.

 

[Batius finkius]

From what I gather the pump is always under load as it’s driven on the rear of the belt which run effectively 90 degrees off the bottom of the pump and so the tensioner is always pulling against the pump even when off, effectively trying to pull the pump sidewards, rather than the toothed side of the belt just turning the pump as it works it’s way around. Keep an eye on that coolant level folks!

 

[s130]

From what I gather the pump is always under load as it’s driven on the rear of the belt which run effectively 90 degrees off the bottom of the pump and so the tensioner is always pulling against the pump even when off, effectively trying to pull the pump sidewards, rather than the toothed side of the belt just turning the pump as it works it’s way around. Keep an eye on that coolant level folks!

Which ever side of the belt, toothed or smooth the belt will always require tension and thus put a side thrust/load on all component on the belt path.

Sensibly the water pump and tensioner are on the non driven/return side of the cam belt run and not one the crank to camshaft pulled side as this is where the forces are at a maximum.

In the good? old days that water pump was separate from the cam belt system but I guess cost, manufacturing ease, complexity etc. resulted in the arrangement we have today.

This begs the question what do the new all electric EV vehicle do for their water pumps, air con, etc. Are these now main motor driven? If so are they belt or direct drive? Or are the individually electric motor driven?

 

[chris3234]

Which ever side of the belt, toothed or smooth the belt will always require tension and thus put a side thrust/load on all component on the belt path.

Sensibly the water pump and tensioner are on the non driven/return side of the cam belt run and not one the crank to camshaft pulled side as this is where the forces are at a maximum.

In the good? old days that water pump was separate from the cam belt system but I guess cost, manufacturing ease, complexity etc. resulted in the arrangement we have today.

This begs the question what do the new all electric EV vehicle do for their water pumps, air con, etc. Are these now main motor driven? If so are they belt or direct drive? Or are the individually electric motor driven?

Electric pumps on most of them for cooling the batterys and ev also required a special note conductive oil for the air con system

 

[eeeno]

The timing belt on 1.4 8V had a bad crack on the base of a tooth just after four years and 30 000 km (18 641 miles). It had been done at a garage professionally. Time is the biggest factor here even if one doesn't drive that much. There's absolutely no reason to delay the job much further and on top of that it does not give any warning signs.

The water pump is not stressed much as it runs on the side of the belt but it most likely will not last 100k km or 62 k miles. I've heard that they're not so good anymore. Original ones might last, but then again the coolant needs changing sometimes anyways so it makes sense to change the water pump too. The reason why a water pump would fail so early is probably due to an improper tension on the belt or the pump had been turned dry without coolant.

Anyway I've always wondered what makes Citroen's cambelt last so much longer than the same ones on Peugeots!? Peugeot has half the time 4-5 years and 60k km schedule. Same engines.

 

[bugsymike]

The timing belt on 1.4 8V had a bad crack on the base of a tooth just after four years and 30 000 km (18 641 miles). It had been done at a garage professionally. Time is the biggest factor here even if one doesn't drive that much. There's absolutely no reason to delay the job much further and on top of that it does not give any warning signs.

The water pump is not stressed much as it runs on the side of the belt but it most likely will not last 100k km or 62 k miles. I've heard that they're not so good anymore. Original ones might last, but then again the coolant needs changing sometimes anyways so it makes sense to change the water pump too. The reason why a water pump would fail so early is probably due to an improper tension on the belt or the pump had been turned dry without coolant.

Anyway I've always wondered what makes Citroen's cambelt last so much longer than the same ones on Peugeots!? Peugeot has half the time 4-5 years and 60k km schedule. Same engines.

I had a customer with a Citroen I think it was a C8 at the time it had always been serviced from new by the dealers, cambelt failed and destroyed the engine well within their recommended time and mileage limits, Citroen refused to pay which is one reason why he became my customer!!!
At the time Citroen were replacing engines caused by this in France but not in England.

 

[vexorg]

I had a customer with a Citroen I think it was a C8 at the time it had always been serviced from new by the dealers, cambelt failed and destroyed the engine well within their recommended time and mileage limits

They did drop the milesage and age, then they removed the information from the handbook. I've got a 2011 citroen ds4 with 2.0 diesel, handbooks says 10 years or 150,000 miles. The later handbooks were 6 years and 90,000 miles, then the newest has no info.

Mine is the high power one, 163bhp, and I changed the belt at just over nine and a half years, and 130,000 miles, everything looked in great condition, belt, pump, tensioners - and never had been changed in the past (previous owner had it since almost new).