General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

Hi. In case you didn't read it in an earlier post I did, our own car, a TA, had a similar problem. The S/S would operate but would cut back in and start the engine again after 19 seconds. We put up with it until the car had its first service in September. The dealer had to keep our car overnight as initially they couldn't determine what the fault was with the S/S and then they discovered it was a faulty heater flap motor linked to the climate control that was causing the S/S to function incorrectly. Once they had replaced the offending part, S/S has worked flawlessly ever since. Nothing at all wrong with the battery. I'm not saying this is the problem with your own car, but might be worth mentioning to the dealer next time you are in.

Did they tell you how the heater flap was affecting the S/S? On the face of it they appear to be completely different systems.

 

[jrkitching]

Did they tell you how the heater flap was affecting the S/S? On the face of it they appear to be completely different systems.

This is just my take on it, but here goes...

The heater flap is driven by a servo motor. If the motor runs against the stops & stalls, it will take more electrical power from the battery (stalled motors draw more current).

The S/S electronics likely detects the increased electrical load caused by the stalled flap drive servo & restarts the engine.

 

[frupi]

This is just my take on it, but here goes...

The heater flap is driven by a servo motor. If the motor runs against the stops & stalls, it will take more electrical power from the battery (stalled motors draw more current).

The S/S electronics likely detects the increased electrical load caused by the stalled flap drive servo & restarts the engine.

Now I'm no automotive electrician and I can't ask my Dad who actually used to design and build vehicle wiring looms because sadly, he's no longer with us, but jk's explanation seems pretty damn plausible to me.

Having had to suffer the boredom of actually watching a vehicle wiring loom put together on a pretty massive board in a factory in South Africa, I'm betting that as the climate control is still supposed to operate effectively when S/S is active, so electronic signals must be getting sent somewhere between the two systems via the car's ECU.

At the end of the day, I was absolutely satisfied with the dealership Service Managers explanation of what the problem had been. I had given him a comprehensive explanation of what the fault was and his team in turn subsequently discovered the fault diagnostically. It turned out that the reason they kept the car overnight, was because the faulty heater flap control was not something they kept on the shelf and had to be couriered in.

I realise that lately, there has been some slating of dealerships and almost total belief by some that some consumers might somehow be diddled or lied to about various things (filter marking anyone?). This wasn't my experience with the dealership I visited and I can generally smell bullsh*t at 20 paces. This wasn't some story they concocted.

We weren't aware at the time, but the climate control system on our car wasn't operating correctly, probably from the day we drove the car out of the dealership we bought it from and to be honest, the car had been sat around for the best part of 12 months before it landed in our laps so it wouldn't surprise me if the fault came about through lack of use or something.

Anyway, as I've already said, the S/S system now runs absolutely flawlessly everytime the car is used as does the climate control, so we're happy.

 

[Aikidoamigo]

Since the long run to and from wales it seems to be functioning in line with expectations now; switching off when stopped but not jumping into life until I touch something.

So far so good.

 

[frupi]

Since the long run to and from wales it seems to be functioning in line with expectations now; switching off when stopped but not jumping into life until I touch something.

So far so good.

I highly recommend the purchase of a CTEK charger. They are a bit of an expense, but a great bit of kit as I'm sure other forum members who have bought one will testify. I mostly use ours now after the car has been left standing at home after taking holidays abroad. I just pop the battery on charge and it's all done in two or three hours, fully topped up and ready to go.

http://www.ctek.com/gb/en/chargers/MXS 5.0

CTEK MXS 5.0T Battery Charger with Automatic Temperature Compensation: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

 

[wellfan]

Got my battery charger from Lidl for about 13 quid. Did the job for me after over two years of non existent S/S. Pay a bit more if you like. Waste of money, if I may give my opinion

 

[Aikidoamigo]

I highly recommend the purchase of a CTEK charger. They are a bit of an expense, but a great bit of kit as I'm sure other forum members who have bought one will testify. I mostly use ours now after the car has been left standing at home after taking holidays abroad. I just pop the battery on charge and it's all done in two or three hours, fully topped up and ready to go.

http://www.ctek.com/gb/en/chargers/MXS 5.0

CTEK MXS 5.0T Battery Charger with Automatic Temperature Compensation: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

I have a dogg's dudah's charger that I bought from a boat shop... really good gear; just when I read in the manual about disconnecting the S/S stuff from the battery before fastening on the charger, I got cold feet.

Is it easy to do etc?

 

[wellfan]

I have a dogg's dudah's charger that I bought from a boat shop... really good gear; just when I read in the manual about disconnecting the S/S stuff from the battery before fastening on the charger, I got cold feet.

Is it easy to do etc?

Takes less than a couple of minutes. 10mm spanner, remove negative terminal, remove positive terminal. If you have absolutely zero DIY skills I believe it is still easily done. Easy for me to say as I have been taking cars to bits for years, so maybe give it a miss if you are totally handless

 

[UFI]

Takes less than a couple of minutes. 10mm spanner, remove negative terminal, remove positive terminal.

You don't need tools on a 500, the earth terminal has a release, and the IBS unplugs. No need to undo the positive terminal. That said, I've just been charging UFI with the battery still connected, otherwise you loose S/S until it relearns every time you do.

 

[wellfan]

You don't need tools on a 500, the earth terminal has a release, and the IBS unplugs. No need to undo the positive terminal. That said, I've just been charging UFI with the battery still connected, otherwise you loose S/S until it relearns every time you do.

Yes, but the negative terminal still has a connection after you remove the quick release cable. I removed the remaining cable as well. Easy enough then just to totally isolate the battery.
Not sure what you mean about the S/S relearning. Since I charged my battery the S/S has worked flawlessly immediately.

 

[UFI]

You don't need tools on a 500, the earth terminal has a release, and the IBS unplugs. No need to undo the positive terminal. That said, I've just been charging UFI with the battery still connected, otherwise you loose S/S until it relearns every time you do.

Yes, but the negative terminal still has a connection after you remove the quick release cable. I removed the remaining cable as well. Easy enough then just to totally isolate the battery.
Not sure what you mean about the S/S relearning. Since I charged my battery the S/S has worked flawlessly immediately.

The 'remaining' cable is the IBS/IBM plug. Battery totally isolated in 30 seconds no tools. I've done this on the road many times to reset the S/S system/ smart alternator. Battery clamps are quite weak and not designed for repeated tightening, especially when Fiat made it easy

The last time the dealer charged my battery it needed a couple of days running to relearn, and an IBS reset, but then my cars been through a few batteries.

 

[wellfan]

The last time the dealer charged my battery it needed a couple of days running to relearn, and an IBS reset, but then my cars been through a few batteries.

Strange the relearn issue. As I said, my S/S worked immediately for the first time, suppose it had feck all to relearn, having never worked before!!

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Well after almost 30 months of non-existent S/S. I splashed out and bought a charger from Lidl last week. Charged the battery overnight and the S/S has worked flawlessly for past 10 days or so. Touch wood.

Got my battery charger from Lidl for about 13 quid. Did the job for me after over two years of non existent S/S. Pay a bit more if you like. Waste of money, if I may give my opinion

Agreed, the Lidl and Aldi chargers are all smart chargers with 'plus' charging built in, so should be enough to sort a battery thats causing SS issues, assuming its not too far gone

 

[jrkitching]

Actually there's a much easier way to charge the battery in-situ.

It's perfectly safe to charge the battery without disconnecting anything if you attach the positive charging lead to the positive battery terminal, and the negative charging lead to a solid earth point on the car.

This works regardless of which version of intelligent battery sensor is fitted (there've been a few different designs).

It's also the only (reasonably) safe way to jump start the car from a second battery.

Caution: NEVER connect either a charger or jump leads between the physical battery terminals without disconnecting; you'll likely fry the IBS electronics.

 

[wellfan]

Actually there's a much easier way to charge the battery in-situ.

It's perfectly safe to charge the battery without disconnecting anything if you attach the positive charging lead to the positive battery terminal, and the negative charging lead to a solid earth point on the car.

This works regardless of which version of intelligent battery sensor is fitted (there've been a few different designs).

It's also the only (reasonably) safe way to jump start the car from a second battery.

Caution: NEVER connect either a charger or jump leads between the physical battery terminals without disconnecting; you'll likely fry the IBS electronics.

Yes. Makes perfect sense. Thanks.

 

[UFI]

While replacing the battery in UFI with a supercap bank today, I thought I'd measure the car's standby current draw.

120Ma!

No wonder UFI is going to be on his 3rd battery in two years soon. Has anyone else ever measured this? Normal standby shouldn't be more than 40Ma (and this is being generous). This could be the cause of a lot of battery related issues that the 500 in general seems to have.

Unfortunately, this means UFI can't be run on a supercap as it will potentially die in the time it takes to refuel!

Also explains why I always got MUCH better MPG if I charged the battery before leaving. In the order of 20%.

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

While replacing the battery in UFI with a supercap bank today, I thought I'd measure the car's standby current draw.

120Ma!

No wonder UFI is going to be on his 3rd battery in two years soon. Has anyone else ever measured this? Normal standby shouldn't be more than 40Ma (and this is being generous). This could be the cause of a lot of battery related issues that the 500 in general seems to have.

Unfortunately, this means UFI can't be run on a supercap as it will potentially die in the time it takes to refuel!

Also explains why I always got MUCH better MPG if I charged the battery before leaving. In the order of 20%.

120mA does sound rather high. The obvius question is where is it going? I haven't measured mine but I shall do so as soon as practicable.

 

[ahmett]

While replacing the battery in UFI with a supercap bank today, I thought I'd measure the car's standby current draw.

120Ma!

No wonder UFI is going to be on his 3rd battery in two years soon. Has anyone else ever measured this? Normal standby shouldn't be more than 40Ma (and this is being generous). This could be the cause of a lot of battery related issues that the 500 in general seems to have.

Unfortunately, this means UFI can't be run on a supercap as it will potentially die in the time it takes to refuel!

Also explains why I always got MUCH better MPG if I charged the battery before leaving. In the order of 20%.

I had 3 batteries in 3 years = ) Lets see how long this lasts!

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

While replacing the battery in UFI with a supercap bank today, I thought I'd measure the car's standby current draw.

120Ma!

Was that after popping the bonnet and locking the car and testing it after 15min when the car has fully shut down the canbus system, or with the car unlocked after having just opened the door and popped the bonnet

 

[UFI]

Car locked, but I didn't know about waiting 15mins, I figured there might be more to it but it was getting to late to properly investigate. Will try again tomorrow.