Tuning Bravo 1.6 16v TB on P75 Manifold

[Opelkadett C]

What does a 1.4 8v manifold look like? Does someone has a picture of it? I cannot remember having seen one. Does it have the same port spacing and bolt pattern as the sei/ p75 mani?

 

[fingers99]

I've only seen one briefly in the flesh (as I made a desperAte -- and failed -- attempt to buy the engine and box) but I think the spacing will be the same as the other MPIs.

 

[Opelkadett C]

I have found some pics from a 1.4 8v engine (2006 Grande punto). The head looks very similar to the sei/ p75 mpi heads. The manifold on it looks nice, with a nice large inlet. Although there is a 90 degrees bend in it .

Btw. Isn’t this a nice engine for a complete engine swap? Or do you need a bulge in the bonnet for it?


It is currently on fleabay, expensive though.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIAT-GRANDE-PUNTO-ENGINE-1-4-8V-06_W0QQitemZ360177384883QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item53dc3ebdb3

 

[fingers99]

Pretty much straight swap (much as the 1.4 16v). The 16v will be more powerful out of the crate, though.

 

[Opelkadett C]

I realise the 1.4 16v will deliver more power out of the crate. But I like to idea of a tuned 1.4 8v maybe putting out ± 100 bhp. And having bags of torque . It is something different than what already has been done before.

It would be nice when you can get it running on a P75 ecu, just like a P60 engine on an 1100 engine. (Ofcourse aftermarket would be better.)

I see some problems using the original intake manifold though, the attached picture shows it is rather big. And I am afraight it will not fit inside the engine bay. Maybe the P75 manifold is needed to solve this issue .

The extra cc from the 1.4 8v compared to the 1242 is mainly coming from the bigger stroke, which is 84.0 mm instead of 78.86mm (to be precise ). This means the engine would be maybe like 10mm higher compared to the 1242. Much like the 1242 compared to the 1100.

The bore is 72.0mm, instead of 70.8mm. But this difference in bore compared to the 1242 concerns me a little. With making the bore larger it could be that the fiat engineers have increased the pitch between the cilinders. Which could have had concequenses for the port spacing (inlet and outtake).

But maybe they did not change the pitch, but they chose to have tiny ‘dams’ between the cilinders. In this case the P75 intake and maybe the head can be used (with P75 or wilder cam). And I may be able to re-use my 1242 supersprint manifold (when it clears the sump).

This is all speculation, and I am looking forward to reading about an 1.4 8v engine swap. I am considering this swap but won’t be doing it within the time of one year (and after having found a cheap engine). I am far from finished with experimenting with my 1242 spi.

I have my eye on an engine know, but the owner doens’t know it’s history. I think I can get it cheap but no known history is not an ideal base for a swap..

Some general info on the 1.4 8v engine:

As far as I know used in the grande punto (2006 onwards) and doblo (2005 onwards) models.

Engine code 350a1000
Stroke: 84.0
Bore: 72.0
Power: 77 Bhp
Max. Torque: 115 Nm/ 3000rpm
Compression ratio: 11,1:1

 

[fingers99]

Can't see head to bonnet clearance being an issue. Traditionally people use a 1242 manifold to fit the 1.4 16v engine into a Cento, so I doubt bore spacing will be a problem although I've no idea if a P75 mani will fit.

 

[Opelkadett C]

I don't think the head to bonnet clearance would be a problem either. But instead the clearance between the 1.4 8v manifold to 'firewall' would. I think .

 

[fingers99]

Oh yeah. The 16v inlet mani doesn't fit either.

 

[NUGGY]

hi there my car does need rolling road session but funds dont allow at the moment, my chip was made up by a friend of sei160 i dont know the exact spec but it is more driveable and the rev limit is 7200rpm, we did try one with a limit of 8000rpm (video of this posted some where on cento rebels) my engine has been fully balanced but with standard valve springs they did start to bounce which doesnt sound too good, the induction was a enclosed cone filter and whatever pipe work would fit (a cut down honda accord polished ally pipe which had a breather in the right place and a 90 degree elbow which fitted TB and ally pipe and the enclosed filter fitted on the end above the gearbox with a flexi pipe which goes to where the fog light used to be it all looks good, the rest of my engine bay is a little un tidy but it works a treat)

 

[fingers99]

8,000 is way to high, IMHO. On a 1242 gives 4139.633 fpm, on 1.4 4409.449.

4,000 fpm is generally regarded as the safe limit for cast pistons/stock rods. The S2000 doesn't have a much higher piston speed, but has forged rods and pistons and a steel crank.

I'd expect something to go bang pretty soon.

 

[NUGGY]

thats why i removed it (it was only on the car for 10 minutes) i'm on the look out for a 1.4 8valve and may be try my p75 head and cam set up to see if it works, everything will bolt up and run the rest is just minor detail i now have the use of a lathe, all i need is a TIG welder and i can do some thing with inlet manifold, longer more curved inlets of equal length should help improve torque (i think 7200rpm is as high as you need) it is trial and error, so far every thing i've tried has worked ok (i've done 50,000 miles on the current set up with reasonable economy)

 

[fingers99]

Straight would be better and easier than curved. Somewhere there's a pic of the mani (albeit with ITBs) Brooky made up for his 16v -- there should be room.

 

[NUGGY]

True staight would be better but in the limited sei engine bay you would still need a 90 degree bend where the TB fits, which is why manufacturers use curved manifolds with a TB on the end, the lesser of two evils

 

[NUGGY]

My last post is my alternative for my problem as i do not want to go down the ITB route but stick with my 48mm single TB and i also would like more torque

 

[fingers99]

But Brooky's is in a Cinq engine bay. With the correct angle you can fit runners at least as long as the P75, pop the TB on the end (etc.)

 

[NUGGY]

when i chop up my spare manifold i will try this, cheers (my mate used cuved inlets which curved over rocker cover on his CORSA, fogive me for swearing, which worked quite well ) but i will try this first

 

[NUGGY]

by the way fingers99 i used to own a 1995 maserati ghibli awsome machine just dont try drive it in the wet, they just love to swap ends

 

[fingers99]

Somewhere theres a pic of a -- formerly -- immaculate one which did just that. Yellow one IIRC.

Mind you, if rallycinq's prections of the handling of ToyFIAT are right, I should become very used to spinning down the road like a top!