Technical Brake Woes

[benj111]

Short version.

1. The piece in the first picture is a bit of the shroud for the brake disc. is it actually necessary?

2. I bought this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-FRON...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
but none of the parts fit, as evidenced by the other 2 pictures, am i being an idiot or the seller?



Long ranty version.
So Wednesday last week, managed to get 2 stone chips on my windscreen (but hey its ok because the first one cracked it anyway, grrr), Same day i started getting grindy brakes, checked them and discovered a brake pad down to the metal, so order brake pads from eurocar parts and a caliper rebuild kit from ebay (the E stands for expert, right?). Thursday, changed the brake pads, and decided to check the other side, and whats this metal sticking out of the inside of the tyre, oh, down to the metal banding, so of to the tyre shop and to get the wheels aligned.
today I went to sort out the brake calipers, as ive been getting a funny noise, I guess I found it because the disc shroud (or whatever its called) was half hanging off. cleaned up the caliper which was actually in quite good nick in the places where it mattered, but all the rubber seems to have gone, and the kit I ordered off ebay isn't right, I don't know if its me or them who are wrong.

Oh and the haynes manual is absolutely useless.

But on the plus side it was actually a fairly straight forward job, if i has had the right parts. easier than hub brakes.

 

[DaveMcT]

The disc shrouds are not absolutely necessary. Mine had to be removed when I changed the wheel bearings only for the retaining bolts to shear off. They have sat in the garage for 12 months causing no problems other than taking up space.
The important caliper seals are the square section piston ring type seal, followed by the dust covers. I use red rubber grease and find them easy enough to fit on front brakes. Rear calipers (as on 100HP) are a nightmare. I gave up and bought reconditioned parts.

Severely worn inside shoulder of tyre is likely to be the bottom arm rear bush. My wife's car had the tracking done last year, it steered fine yet it steering fine but chewed though a pair of front tyres is a ridiculously short time. The rear bushes "looked" ok and I could not move them to indicate failure, But the MOT failed on both sides. Once they were taken out the fault was obvious.

New bottom arms fitted, new MOT, tracking checked ok so hopefully the new tyres will have a more reasonable life. There is a lot of rubbish on eBay so I got a pair of Original Birth arms from Shop4Parts complete with new ball joint pinch bolts. These are zinc plated high tensile and must be replaced. Ordinary black HT would do the job just fine but when you see how the plated bolts rust you'll want the OEM spec.
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=2267
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=15193

 

[benj111]

the bushing on the other side needs doing, in fact I have the part ready to go (i just bought the bush rather than the entire arm., i judged brakey tyryness to be more important though. does that mean you think both need doing?

the square section seal is pictured in the final picture, fitting neatly inside the replacement?! it seems ok, the rubber gaiters are what really need replacing. I used silicone grease, but there isn't really anything to keep it in at the mo.

 

[DaveMcT]

After messing up a motorbike brake caliper, I'm not a fan of silicone grease. It's too slippery and tends to cause the pads to move out but not retract properly. Red rubber grease lets the seal stick/slip allowing it to retract the caliper piston just enough to avoid the pads binding.

 

[benj111]

ok ill look into the red grease then, not really important at the mo tho cos i need to get hold of seals that actually fit.

 

[portland_bill]

Have a look at these guys.

I've used them for various bits, all fit fine. Quality and finish definitely 'aftermarket', btu seems ok.
They list different seal kits for 2wd or 4wd, whereas your eBay purchase lists them all. I think yours may be for the 4x4.

https://brakeparts.co.uk/shop/Fiat/...X4/Front - Brake Calipers and Wheel Cylinders

 

[benj111]

Yes i was just about to feedback here, as id worked that out.

54mm is for the 4x4, 48mm for the bog standard.

 

[koalar]

The disc shrouds are not absolutely necessary. Mine had to be removed when I changed the wheel bearings only for the retaining bolts to shear off. They have sat in the garage for 12 months causing no problems other than taking up space.

yes you can run without them.

Many track day car have them removed to aid maintenance

however they cost money for fiat to design and fit them. If they can get away with one less bolt to any part of the car they do. When you are selling cars by the million it all adds up. If fiat deemed then necessary, why leave them off

 

[benj111]

True, but as it stands today, I have a 16 year old car, with a item that is an unknown amount of time and money to fix.

No ones jumped in and said its an mot fail, so if government doesn't feel its necessary why should I?

In an ideal world it would go off the the garage to get every little foible fixed, but this isn't an ideal world and I already have a list of other thing fixing.

 

[daiblack]

I haven't had front brake discs shrouds on my Alfa 155 since the day I bought it due to the upgraded brakes and in the 13 years I've owned it I have never had it fail an M.O.T or had an advisory because of them not being fitted.

 

[DaveMcT]

I believe the disc shrouds are supposed to protect against water splash but suspect they are there because they have always been there. It's probably too much hassle for the factory to change the specs. Motorbikes have open discs and nobody complains.

Sandy Munro (the US quality and manufacturing specialist) says it's all to easy to get fired for making things too easy. So workers stick with what they have until the lumbering management eventually make the changes.