Tuning BMC or K&N??

[gadge]

ok, i'm thinking its time to fit an induction kit to Enzo, originally a K&N 57i one - their about £85 - but a mate of mine says that he knows someone with a BMC type on celica and he says it sounds awsome, but its double the price at £210 so i was woundering are the bmc's worth it or am i better off fitting a trusty K&N? its a 2.4 by the way?

 

[Punto_Pete]

to put things into perspective. the k&n 57i will lose performance where it matters, ie the mid range and make the car slower even if it gives you a couple of bhp at the top end. you get what u pay for i'm afraid.

either pay out and get the bmc, or just get a k&n panel filter for the original airbox which is often the best performance solution anyway.

 

[dave]

both crap

 

[gadge]

both crap

HAHAHAHAHAHA ok dave, what say you? in my opinion they must have some degree of performance upgrade over the standard setup, even if it is just better at filtering the air? the bmc does seem a fancy way of just having a pannel filter in a standard air box at least the k&n is "open" abet alittle exposed to the elephants (elements). the old paper setup must be starving the engine of free flowing air?

 

[Shadeyman]

but its double the price at £210

Don't waste your money on BMC.

£210 to make it sound like a recently unblocked drain, put a lovely flat spot in the cars power curve and if your lucky gain 1hp when you thrash it.

Spend an extra £40 for some proper tuning, get it remapped, seems to be a lot of places doing it for that sort of money these days.

If you insist on adding an aftermarket filter, K&N replacement air filters are designed to fit right into your standard oem airbox and usually give better results.

 

[dave]

both k&n and bmc pannel filters will be fine. but the k&n 57i and bmc induction kits are just a waste of money, you would be better off with a £15 twin cone filter and make your own way of sitting that filter in a cold place

 

[Punto_Pete]

HAHAHAHAHAHA ok dave, what say you? in my opinion they must have some degree of performance upgrade over the standard setup, even if it is just better at filtering the air? the bmc does seem a fancy way of just having a pannel filter in a standard air box at least the k&n is "open" abet alittle exposed to the elephants (elements). the old paper setup must be starving the engine of free flowing air?

the filter being 'open' is a bad thing in the case of the k&n, all it does is stuck hot air from the engine bay, and those 'cold air feeds' do absolutely nothing.

the paper filter doesn't starve the engine of air. the intake system on the car has had £millions spent on research and development to get the best from the engine for its intended use. just bolting on a cone filter doesn't give u an instant power boost.

however, a well thought out and designed intake system can give good improvements over standard.

some food for thought here....... on most cars the best intake improvement is just a replacement panel filter from the likes of k&n or ITG, this has been proven many times.

personally i've used several options over the years, all on my HGT in this case. i've had standard, modified airbox (drilled) with paper element, k&n 57i and finally my current GSR.

of these the GSR is the best, but only because it is able to flow more air at high rpm (6000+) meaning the car is developing power right up to the rev limiter. 2nd would be the drilled airbox, there is almost no noticeable difference in the mid-range between this and the GSR. fitting a k&n panel would have helped improve the top end bringing it closer to the GSR's performance, although the GSR would still be better by design.

as for the k&N 57i, i removed this to modify my standard airbox as the drilled airbox (and even the standard one in the midrange) was noticeable better for performance.

i hope this helps u make the right decision, my money would be going on a replacement panel filter, unless u can get a GSR then think it would just come down to budget

 

[viggers]

You can make your own in the style of a k&n typhoon for around £120.

 

[s77mul]

I looked into this with my 2.4 and after plenty of looking i went for a Novitec Maxxair 179 euros was easy to fit sounds great and i havent noticed any loss of power at all but like people say standard or not standard! your choice

 

[gadge]

the filter being 'open' is a bad thing in the case of the k&n, all it does is stuck hot air from the engine bay, and those 'cold air feeds' do absolutely nothing.

the paper filter doesn't starve the engine of air. the intake system on the car has had £millions spent on research and development to get the best from the engine for its intended use. just bolting on a cone filter doesn't give u an instant power boost.

however, a well thought out and designed intake system can give good improvements over standard.

some food for thought here....... on most cars the best intake improvement is just a replacement panel filter from the likes of k&n or ITG, this has been proven many times.

personally i've used several options over the years, all on my HGT in this case. i've had standard, modified airbox (drilled) with paper element, k&n 57i and finally my current GSR.

of these the GSR is the best, but only because it is able to flow more air at high rpm (6000+) meaning the car is developing power right up to the rev limiter. 2nd would be the drilled airbox, there is almost no noticeable difference in the mid-range between this and the GSR. fitting a k&n panel would have helped improve the top end bringing it closer to the GSR's performance, although the GSR would still be better by design.

as for the k&N 57i, i removed this to modify my standard airbox as the drilled airbox (and even the standard one in the midrange) was noticeable better for performance.

i hope this helps u make the right decision, my money would be going on a replacement panel filter, unless u can get a GSR then think it would just come down to budget

wow, great advice guys, PUNTO PETE i forgot to mention i already have a GSR intate on it, and your right, this definatly helps on thottle response in the mid range, i belive its already been re-mapped by the previous owner (schooweenick) to the tune of 205bhp (photo evidence).

However i must disagree on some points about the air fitler.according to an artice i read sometime ago, manufactures have to way up the cost of building cars. they take into account emissons, sound levels, cost of the part (paper vs oil type mesh) and power (for tax reasons in some counties) and whether the customer would apricate the fancy bell and whistles?. manufactures are'nt going to fit £210 carbon fibred BMC's when they can have a plastic box with a paper element made for about 10 quid? so the paper eliment and restrictive - in my opinion - air box design is there as a good allrounder that ticks the boxes. basicly it does the job of feeding clean air into the engine. by design,an oil inpregnated will filter air much better so on what you say a panel filter would probably compliment the GSR quite nicely?

 

[dave]

if you already have a gsr on it why you asking about down grading it. if the filter is dirty just buy a cleaning kit and clean it

 

[gadge]

if you already have a gsr on it why you asking about down grading it. if the filter is dirty just buy a cleaning kit and clean it

cos its only a big pipe?? it could be as wide as the channel tunnel but its no good if its being starved by an inadiquate air box and filter can it?? or can it? you've all confused me now? people have been banging on about cone filters and the like for years?? surely letting more air (abet warm) is alot better than little air? especially with a pipe as wide as a GSR?

 

[Shadeyman]

It makes no difference what sized pipe you attach, the airflow is restricted by throttle bodies, manifolds, cylinder head design etc. Attaching a huge tube to your car has no effect unless other induction parts are upgraded accordingly.

Big pipes attached to standard engines do nothing positive for performance. However they do suck in less dense hot air from the engine bay reducing power and producing flat spots.

To have a positive effect, all of an engines induction system has to be upgraded, not just bits of it.

Once you have the ability to get large amounts of air into the engine you have to some how use that extra air. A remap is the obvious choice. Once all that extra air and fuel has been burnt it now needs to be expelled to allow for the next large amount of air. So, you now need a tuned exhaust to help those gases out to atmosphere.

Attaching a 30 foot diameter pipe to your throttle body and using an old metal dustbin for a back box does not make your car a fire breathing monster. It actually makes you look like a complete idiot when your car sounds like an old diesel cement mixer and has similar performance.

If you want a faster car, save up and buy one.

 

[gadge]

30 foot! thats just daft!...... maybe 20 though?. i don't have a dustbin, but i do have a family size baked bean can? can i get any performance out of that?? hehehehehehe ....... i think i might just get a Gee-Wizz instead?, i bet their owner don't have this trouble lol

 

[Shadeyman]

30 foot! thats just daft!...... maybe 20 though?. i don't have a dustbin, but i do have a family size baked bean can? can i get any performance out of that?? hehehehehehe ....... i think i might just get a Gee-Wizz instead?, i bet their owner don't have this trouble lol

Sorry but the truth is never easy to swallow.

 

[Punto_Pete]

surely letting more air (abet warm) is alot better than little air? especially with a pipe as wide as a GSR?

warm air contains less oxygen than cold air. so a smaller pipe will be better if its drawing cold air.

u never said u have a gsr pipe already. in that case (not knowing the details of your particular model) i'd expect you just need a new open cone filter (not a 57i kit). gsr's are designed to position the filter in the bumper for the cold air stream

 

[gadge]

yeah, sorry that was my fault, its a GSR hose thats in place of the standard intake hose. its not really speed i'm after or BHP gains, its more crisper acceleration and a smoother response on the pedal that i want, and also better air quality too as a bonus. i just figured a filter that grabs more air would benifit the engine? i may not bother now?

 

[gadge]

Sorry but the truth is never easy to swallow.

yeah i know, just did'nt want anyone thinking i was some kid who is after a million horsepower and 1000 mph just from a bolt on filter, i realise my cars not a turbocharged rally machine, just after a smoother drive is all? - i'm afraid "saving up for a faster car" is not on the cards at the moment so i'm trying to make the best with what i got

 

[Shadeyman]

i'm afraid "saving up for a faster car" is not on the cards at the moment so i'm trying to make the best with what i got

To get the best bang for your buck have the car remapped. It will deffinately give you "crisper acceleration" and "smoother response". Will also increase your BHP and sometimes, but not always, better MPG. Many places are doing generic maps for £250 some as low as £200, all are a far better upgrade than any filter.

 

[volxstu]

I have yet to see a remap with proven gains anything like companies state (which reminds my friend never got back to me about that place)

I think unless you really know your stuff all this kind of thing is expensive hocus pocus.