Block test

[Chris]

Is it standard procedure to do a block test (check for combustion gasses in coolant) when having a thermastat changed?
The car is a '97 1.6SX, done 80,000 miles.

Thanks

 

[Tom]

Not normally. Do you have reason to believe there is a problem?

 

[chris]

Re: Re: Block test

Errm
Yes.
The stat was changed (due to being stuck open) by the garage, but they said they did a block test as a standard part of the repair. The garage then informed me the head gasket had gone.
Was not a happy chappy as the car has NEVER overheated and shown no signs of an imminent head gasket failure. Sure enough the gasket has gone, but I'm concerned I'm going to be left with the hefty bill for the repair due to (perhaps) the garage's incomptetence. I'll not say which garage it was YET until I hear from an independent engineer later today.
Regards.

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Block test

Strange!!! A stuck open stat would make the car run cold (as mine did) and should not blow the gasket.


Sure enough the gasket has gone


What was their proof?

 

[chris]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

I'm not too sure. They claim they test for combustion gasses in coolant as a matter of course for this repair.

As you said the car ran cool whilst the old knackered stat was in it, but when it reached normal temp it would stay there unless you drive down a long hill. Took for ever to warm up as well. It wasn't a problem over the summer, but we had our first frost earlier in the week, and I don't want to damage the cat for the MOT (due in October). Also it tends to drink petrol with a stuck open stat.

I was in work when they changed the stat so my wife was dealing with them. They rang her to say the stat was done, but the head gasket had gone...
My wife's dad went with her to the garage because he was like me. Just couldn't believe the gasket had gone without warning, and thought it a slight coincedence that this had happened on their premises with a (allegedely) trained 'technician' performing the repair.

With my wife's dad present, they did the following:
They started the engine, and it warmed up as normal, carried on getting hotter and hotter. They shut the engine off and lo and behold, the rad was empty. They let it cool, and refilled the system. Engine was started, warmed up and all seemed normal.

The wife and dad decided to risk taking it to another garage to have it looked at just in case, but 5 miles down the road it went...steam every where...steam out the exhaust pipe...Dad took a look and noted rad was still full of water, and that rad fan had not kicked in.

We've had it towed to another garage for them to look at it. Hoping to hear from them today. I know the head will have to be skimmed etc now (big bucks).

But what I really want to know is whether the original garage caused it when they changed the stat. Hopefully will find out tonight if the new garage finds a crack/indication in the head near the stat bolt holes.

Why would they do a block test unless they knew they had damaged it in some way?

Thanks for all advice

Chris

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

Oh dear, you have been well and truly butt-****ed. Sorry!

They obviously failed to bleed the system properly. Bravo's have 2 bleed points and are a bit of a bitch to get the air out of. If you just pour water into the expansion tank it won't fill the engine, or the rad and what happened to you will happen.

Have they taken the head off it? The gasket was probably fine. I'd be yelling at the first garage!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

Yes the first thing I said to the garage representative (didn't speak to the mechanic who did the work) was "have you bled the system after refilling?" He said yes - there are several bleed screws around the piework and rad.

I think I've been shafted too.

Still want to know why would they do this test unless they knew they had done something they shouldn't have. For example...forget to burp the system..or crack the head while undoing/doing bolts up...putting the stat in back to front...failing to put one of the temp sender wires back on...I could go one forever.

I won't know till later what the total damage will be. I do know that it is not going to be nice.

Thanks for all help.
Its really appreciated.
Chris

 

[chris]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

Just spoken to second garage, and they say head gasket looks fine. Can't find any XS water in exhaust gases. Stat looks like it is in the right way round. They have burped the system - full of air apparently. They are currently road testing the car as I type.
So I am hoping the head is OK and won't need a gasket or skimming. Fingers crossed.

Why would the original garage say my gasket is U/S when all they had to do was burp the system properly as required by the repair?

The original garage will probably be hearing from trading standards and my solictor depending on the outcome of the road test.

Chris

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

Good good! Saved you a costly repair!

The first mechanic must have been pretty stupid. Even if you follow the haynes manual its not that hard. I bet he never turned the heater on! Thats where most of the air lurks. Its also a sign that water is going around the system when the heater gets hot. No heat == problem!

I found that just opening the bleed screw for the heater with the engine off was not enough. You really have to remove the screw with the engine running and rev it until water pours out. Several people on here have had issues with airlocks.

As to why they did the gas test, no idea. It won't tell you much anway as the gasses would have been disolved in the water. Also if combustion gas was in the water you would not have issues warming the car up, it would simply blow all its water out. Another good sign of gasket failure is ALOT of water out of the back. (you always get some as its a byproduct of the CAT)

I think the garage were just out to shaft your wife, so to speak.

 

[chris]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

Yep it does sound encouraging.

I can't believe the mistakes they made if it does turn out to be just the bleeding bleed screws!

I would have done the stat myself, but thought for the sake of £35 labour charge would get the pros to do the work. Those hose clips (U know the ones - crimped at the factory) looked a real bitch to undo. I thought at least if something did go wrong they would be liable for putting it right at their cost.

Last time I ever take my car to a so-called independent FIAT specialist for any work.

As I said fingers crossed for the road test this afternoon.

Regards
Chris

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

Best of luck proving it though! Once its left the garage they usually say 'it was fine when you picked it up'.

As for the hose clamps, they are not nice to work with. I ended up using big wire cutters to cut them off and replaced them with normal worm drive clamps. Its about an hours work changing the stat on a 1.6.

 

[Schumaniac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

Anyone knows the reason for airlocks? It has seemingly caused quite some problems.

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Block test

Yeah, air!

The problem is that the cylinder head has no water hoses connecting it, they are all in the block. When you drain and refill it you then have to force the air out of the head. Also the heater is HIGER than the bleed point so thats another one that needs to be forced out.

Its an issue with most modern engines.