Tuning Bigger injectors Punto hgt (goddamn) ECU)

[deafmazter]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for bigger injectors and want replace the iwp 006 for the iwp 069. Does someone know if the ECU is gonna accept this? The flow rate will go from 2.58 g/s to 5.60. g/s. Both at 3 bar. I already have done:

- full stainless steel exhaust with 200 cells cat
- Supersprint 4-2-1 manifold with decat (cf3)
- 2.0 ts cams
- Removed the ac

Thanks.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for bigger injectors and want replace the iwp 006 for the iwp 069. Does someone know if the ECU is gonna accept this? The flow rate will go from 2.58 g/s to 5.60. g/s. Both at 3 bar. I already have done:

- full stainless steel exhaust with 200 cells cat
- Supersprint 4-2-1 manifold with decat (cf3)
- 2.0 ts cams
- Removed the ac

Thanks.

I would be interested to hear any thoughts on that also
I suspect the ECU will need modification for the extra volume, the only reference point I have is many years ago when trying to overcome an immobiliser intermittent fault (eventually I traced to an aftermarket radio) was on a Nissan 1.6 Almera I fitted a Nissan Micra 1.0 litre ECU via a double connection which took me ages to solder in both sets of plugs, I would unplug the 1.6 one and plug in the 1.0 without immobiliser, the vehicle would run happily but it did compromise the performance.
It may sound like a stupid bit of extra work, but was in the days of basic diagnostics and that vehicle had a "Consort" 14 pin plug not an EOBD and in the end I got a special lead and program from some tuning people in Australia and New Zealand which could delete the immobiliser error codes when they chose to come up, so I drove around with a lap top under the drivers seat until I located the faulty radio!

 

[deafmazter]

I would be interested to hear any thoughts on that also
I suspect the ECU will need modification for the extra volume, the only reference point I have is many years ago when trying to overcome an immobiliser intermittent fault (eventually I traced to an aftermarket radio) was on a Nissan 1.6 Almera I fitted a Nissan Micra 1.0 litre ECU via a double connection which took me ages to solder in both sets of plugs, I would unplug the 1.6 one and plug in the 1.0 without immobiliser, the vehicle would run happily but it did compromise the performance.
It may sound like a stupid bit of extra work, but was in the days of basic diagnostics and that vehicle had a "Consort" 14 pin plug not an EOBD and in the end I got a special lead and program from some tuning people in Australia and New Zealand which could delete the immobiliser error codes when they chose to come up, so I drove around with a lap top under the drivers seat until I located the faulty radio!

So, that was a real search haha.

I know that the ECU of the punto hgt (Hitatchi MFI-401) is self learning to a certain extent. So mapping the ecu makes no sense because it continuously writes that program away.

For extra power after all the modifications that are possible (which I have already done) a stand alone ecu is recommended. However, I wonder what will happen if I put in the injectors with a higher flow rate. After all, they operate almost at 3 bar fuel pressure and have the same plug. I am just afraid that the ignition won't quite get it then, only as I said the ecu is self learning so maybe it can be done. Guess I have two options, either order a set or meet the right person who knows haha....

 

[bugsymike]

So, that was a real search haha.

I know that the ECU of the punto hgt (Hitatchi MFI-401) is self learning to a certain extent. So mapping the ecu makes no sense because it continuously writes that program away.

For extra power after all the modifications that are possible (which I have already done) a stand alone ecu is recommended. However, I wonder what will happen if I put in the injectors with a higher flow rate. After all, they operate almost at 3 bar fuel pressure and have the same plug. I am just afraid that the ignition won't quite get it then, only as I said the ecu is self learning so maybe it can be done. Guess I have two options, either order a set or meet the right person who knows haha....

Probably worth fitting them as you may at a later date go for the stand alone ECU, sounds like fun.

 

[deafmazter]

Probably worth fitting them as you may at a later date go for the stand alone ECU, sounds like fun.

The Iwp069 and also iwp043 will fit and work fine, but you know that goddamn hitatchi ecu will 'downgrade' te specs. For optimal performance a stand alone ecu is needed. Someone who did this told me this.

 

[deafmazter]

I also found this:

As mentioned above, the Hitachi MFI-601 ECU was a problem. The vehicle also has an in-tank fuel pressure regulator with a single fuel line to the fuel rail.

I manufactured a fuel tank return adapter, bypassed the in-tank fuel pressure regulator and fitted an adjustable fuel pressure regulator in the engine bay with a 8mm fuel return line back to the fuel tank.

The Hitachi ECU is self learning as previously mentioned, so providing I fitted the correct size injectors for the engine capacity/estimated power output, the ECU should sort out the short and long term fuel trims by itself when in closed loop mode.

At high/full load rpm when the ECU is in open loop condition, I had to ensure there was no leaning out of the fuel mixture.
- The standard injectors are IWP006 units (226cc/m at 3 Bar at 80% duty cycle).
- I calculated that I required the IWP042 units (250cc/m at 3 Bar at 80% duty cycle) for a 150 to 160 bhp engine power output.


Sidenote, you need to upgrade from 1754 cc to 1910 cc haha, if you doing this (cost) the money of a DTA stand alone doesnt matter anymore and give you more options in performance (higher rpm = more power)

 

[AnteLo]

That's from the African stroker build.

Are you running out of injectors so you want to upgrade or what?

Did you go on a dyno to check your AFRs?

The problem isn't the injector size, but the dead times and the injection curve at different voltages.
Fuel trims will sort out the injector size. However, the IWP006 and IWP042 may give the same fuel at 12.4V at a 30% duty cycle, but the IWP042 will give more fuel at 14V and the same duty cycle.
Those injectors are from the same family and very similar so they may work on a stock 1747cc engine and may not.
The builder of the African stroker still had to adjust the fuel pressure to reach Lambda 1 to pass emission testing which means the 042 injectors aren't plug and play even for a modified engine.


The question is, are you running lean at WOT and why should you upgrade the injectors?

 

[deafmazter]

That's from the African stroker build.

Are you running out of injectors so you want to upgrade or what?

Did you go on a dyno to check your AFRs?

The problem isn't the injector size, but the dead times and the injection curve at different voltages.
Fuel trims will sort out the injector size. However, the IWP006 and IWP042 may give the same fuel at 12.4V at a 30% duty cycle, but the IWP042 will give more fuel at 14V and the same duty cycle.
Those injectors are from the same family and very similar so they may work on a stock 1747cc engine and may not.
The builder of the African stroker still had to adjust the fuel pressure to reach Lambda 1 to pass emission testing which means the 042 injectors aren't plug and play even for a modified engine.


The question is, are you running lean at WOT and why should you upgrade the injectors?

I just cleaned my OEM ones, and I was just asking if it’s possible—and it is. However, it won’t make any performance difference without a standalone ECU. I am looking for one, so I’ll also buy larger injectors that fit.

Emission test are no problem, Aspen 4 is your way to go

 

[AnteLo]

Aspen 4

I would like to hear more, even in the PMs

But back to the topic, yes, the 042s would probably work fine even with the stock ECU. The thing is that we don't know the dead times; only the OEMs know them.

That's the thing, if you ever get a standalone you probably couldn't get the 042s to run fine but never to cold start, start with lower battery voltage and the rest of all the fun things as the same as the OEM.

Luckily, there should be a plethora of injectors to choose with known information and the same injection pattern