General Before I start...

[goodgirl156]

Im asking so I hopefully I don't get any stick for doing this.

Mk1 4x4 with tax and test running for swp for a equally ugly mk2 4x4.....

And now why, I have discovered the engine is low across all 4 on compression. i have done a test and im looking at rings rather than a top end rebuild. She still runs and starts fine but is low on power.

I hate carbs, I have followed closely what John has been doing and the way for me to go forward with this is to do a punto 75 and ECU conversion, inline fuel pump with a mk2 gearbox, linkage and drive shaft set. This makes parts easer to find for me and the car much more usable (I know I need to fab an exhaust as well)

Id rather do this on a mk2 but I have what I have....

:slayer:

God speed for round 2 of pulling engines

 

[pandamaniac]

Surely finding a good 4x4 Mk2 gearbox and linkages is hard enough in itself.

Isn't it better to retain originality and get it rebored, or are parts for a Mk1 becoming very hard to find and 'Q' car status, looks slow but goes like stink is the better everyday option.

45BHP or less almost renders the car unsafe on todays roads, you can't get out of the way of a snail.

Dave

 

[goodgirl156]

Parts are incredibly hard to find and every time I order something, oil filter, air filters, I run in to wrong parts.

They are rare, but as I have done my own re-trim its already lost that original value. To be fair the fact its still alive and not rusting in a scrap yard is enough for me.

I'm still mulling it over, going to pull the engine this week and take a look at what's going on - disappointed is not the word

 

[Dragon Man]

i have loads of parts as you know, and i do need the cash.
its a tough call..

like i said, if it was mine and i had the cash i would really be looking ad trying to get it back to being fixed up.
if you really don't want to go down that route, the swap idea would be great.

i guess just keep waiting.. some one is bound to be interested..

this mk1 has done 38k miles.. so i would have thought that everything else would be fine running gear wise.

have you done any work on the other 4x4 engine?

 

[goodgirl156]

Still in bits John, value is of little issue for me at this point, more a usable vehicle that I can run down the motorway for what ever reason for 3 hours (car shows)

 

[aquamarine]

Hi Sam

Have a lot of sympathy with you on this - am sorry to read of the problems. My plan for my resto was always to look at an engine/box swap for the same reasons (motorway driving and general usability). At the mo I'm concentrating on getting it on the road and sticking with the originals, but reading your story doesn't fill with confidence!

My view: it's your car - and you need to make it work for you. For me a Mk1 with some mods under the skin to improve usability could be the perfect combo. You'll always have the original engine and box to re-fit if the need arises.

Si pandamonius_maximus, if anyone can convince that a 965cc engine can do daily driving and motorways, surely it's you...

 

[Didge3]

45BHP or less almost renders the car unsafe on todays roads, you can't get out of the way of a snail.

Dave

I disagree entirely. I have a 750, it has a vastly immense 34bhp at around 5000rpm. This is obviously far from fast, but I can get up to around 40 maybe even 50mph adequately fast enough to ever get into any trouble. Its my daily drive and has been for around a year. Yes its pretty flustered once you get it on the motorway (not that this stops me) but it'll still easily hold 70(+) on a flat, slowing down to 60 on steep hills.
Do not call my car unsafe

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Hi Sam

Have a lot of sympathy with you on this - am sorry to read of the problems. My plan for my resto was always to look at an engine/box swap for the same reasons (motorway driving and general usability). At the mo I'm concentrating on getting it on the road and sticking with the originals, but reading your story doesn't fill with confidence!

My view: it's your car - and you need to make it work for you. For me a Mk1 with some mods under the skin to improve usability could be the perfect combo. You'll always have the original engine and box to re-fit if the need arises.

Si pandamonius_maximus, if anyone can convince that a 965cc engine can do daily driving and motorways, surely it's you...

Well as has been said and I fully agree; it's your car and you can do what you want with it. The most important thing is the car keeps in use. However it does seem a shame to change it from original as it is the earliest known mk1 4x4 (in the UK at least) and even a possible press car? Unless there is huge damage to the bores it could get away with just a light hone and some new piston rings.

Odd that it needs this though. I've got 70k+ out of my 965cc engine. (60k+ out the other one). They are fairly bullet proof engines with good strong (but slightly rattly) duplex timing chains. I can hold 80mph on the motorway even with 4 people in it (it is only 2hp less than the newer 999 Fire).

Are you sure the compression is down (done on a hot engine and all that - sorry if stating the obvious )? It didn't look that smokey in the videos and seemed to idle well when the carb was set up.

To fit the later 4x4 running gear might require some gearbox mount modifications as well (see Alixcompo's work).

Just my thoughts anyway, and entirely up to you. If you do go for it and also want to sell off the 965cc engine / gearbox let me know as I can't complain about having a spare :devil: (although a recent video of it running might be of interest to me to gauge how bad it is likely to be / expensive to repair etc ).

 

[goodgirl156]

Exactly the same across all 4! I find that a little odd to be fair, it still seems to hit 70 with a following wind and to be fair I though the car performed about right for its age but it also had a tendency to get hot now.

Running wise, starts on the button and ticks over very nicely, again odd

 

[onemanmade]

45BHP or less almost renders the car unsafe on todays roads, you can't get out of the way of a snail.

Dave

I get this attitude from people at my work a lot too, all our cars are capable of the speed limit, accelaration isnt quite on par with a modern equivalent perhaps, but this attitude of "people going slowly causes accidents" is a bit ridiculous in my humble opinion. Frankly I think people who dont have any patience and get themselves and other road users into scrapes by overtaking at silly places etc causes accidents.

what happened to having patience for a classic or older car thats what I want to know. Are morris minors, volkswagen beetles, Citroen 2CVs and Fiat Pandas all supposed to get off the road because they dont accelarate quickly?

This is in my opinion caused by people taking their driving instructors instructions to get up to the speed limit as quickly as possible to mean that its a legal requirement to do the speed limit, which is only meant to demonstrate to a driving examiner that you are aware of speed limits and capable of driving calmly and safely at that speed should you need or desire to. Its speed limit, not speed legal target.

Not meant to be offensive but I find the thought process and attitude to be a bit narrow minded.

 

[homeward]

Exactly the same across all 4! I find that a little odd to be fair, it still seems to hit 70 with a following wind and to be fair I though the car performed about right for its age but it also had a tendency to get hot now.

I take it this is dry -- what's it like with a teaspoonful of oil...?

 

[goodgirl156]

Jumps to 8.5 bar - doesnt seem to use oil, and no smoke at all, id take a vid now but its parked up well out of the way. You wouldn't know by listening to it

 

[panda1408]

Is that with all four spark plugs out and a fully open throttle? As well as a strong battery? Seems very low.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I disagree entirely. I have a 750, it has a vastly immense 34bhp at around 5000rpm. This is obviously far from fast, but I can get up to around 40 maybe even 50mph adequately fast enough to ever get into any trouble.

Although its fast enough, its never going to be fast enough to have to choice of stopping to avoid an issue, or accelerating hard to get out of an issue, which is what I think Dave is getting it.

I know exactly where he's coming from, although wouldn't have said it makes them dangerous per say.

 

[goodgirl156]

Is that with all four spark plugs out and a fully open throttle? As well as a strong battery? Seems very low.

Yes, Yes, and yes, done it 4 times now - its not getting lower I suppose that's a good thing.
I tried the compression tester on another car to be sure and it gave the correct results.

 

[Giacosa]

I disagree entirely. I have a 750, it has a vastly immense 34bhp at around 5000rpm. This is obviously far from fast, but I can get up to around 40 maybe even 50mph adequately fast enough to ever get into any trouble. Its my daily drive and has been for around a year. Yes its pretty flustered once you get it on the motorway (not that this stops me) but it'll still easily hold 70(+) on a flat, slowing down to 60 on steep hills.
Do not call my car unsafe

I havn't driven a 750 but I would agree thats its a bit of a stretch to call it unsafe. It might require extra concentration to drive but that would hopefully compensate for a lack of umph.

Something genuinely elderley like an 803cc Minor with all round drums might be a tad hairy.

 

[goodgirl156]

Only time I have found it "scary" is joining a DC slip road that's just off an island. I cant get up to speed to commit to entry. Once im on its fine.
I do feel like i'm abusing the car sitting at 65mph though.

Normal driving is about ok, lack of acceleration is a pain and when hills are involved its not funny.

My other cars are a 2000 turbo scooby and porsche boxster/ducati monster so I have the speed side covered.

 

[Dragon Man]

lets not forget though, with compression like what you are getting it is no wonder it is sluggish!

 

[Didge3]

Although its fast enough, its never going to be fast enough to have to choice of stopping to avoid an issue, or accelerating hard to get out of an issue, which is what I think Dave is getting it.

I know exactly where he's coming from, although wouldn't have said it makes them dangerous per say.

I totally understand a 750, or any Panda isn't anywhere near as safe as a modern car but dangerous or unsafe is too far, if anything driving a Panda has taught me to be a safer drive because I keep my distance more and I'm always looking as far ahead as possible to know what's coming up, things we are taught when we learn to drive of course but are easily forgotten when sat in a car with so little road 'feel' or a sense of how fast you're going etc.

 

[pandamaniac]

Dear All.
I feel I have stirred up a bit of a hornets nest with my comments which I should apologise for.
I would in no way say that Pandas are unsafe (barring the fact they are made from Coke can thin metal and have no safety features at all compared to a newer rotbox).
The problem I have is that with my 4x4 you will only get 5 yards across a roundabout (revving its knackers off) changing into second with MOST roundabout crazies leaving their blocks like Usain Bolt, it leaves me with a poor sense of survival with no air bags or side impact bars.
Also as MEP states power does have its advantages and disadvantages.
Yes you can get into trouble going too fast, but with a Panda you have to measure overtaking very carefully as you can't get out of the way in a hurry.
As also stated hills are a joke and with 4 people in, in Derbyshire it is a nightmare unless its snowing.
Engage 4x4 and warp factor 3 Mr Sulu.
Anyway back to the thread
Certainly having only 50PSI per pot won't help
Cheers Dave