Off Topic Anyone keeping their Panda 'for life'?

[SB1500]

Bit of a car fanatic-ƒantasy discussion thread here!

As I have a relative with a 90's Ford Orion, 25 years old and still knocking about, I think, "If I had that car from new I'd have taken more care to preserve it than he did, especially to keep it so long!". He had it from 2 years old, so I don't know why he didn't take better care. Perhaps he didn't plan to have it THAT long. I think it'd be a nice almost 'retro' car to observe on the road was it not so wishing for death visually..

I try to picture my Panda on the road at the age of 25 years old?! (Cars age). Well, it's not in bad shape right now, with the engine being the strong point. Though there's minor outbreaks of surface rust and a few dents and scrapes..

The first consideration, surely is:
Why would you want to keep the car on the road that long?
Eventually I think I'll have much more money, sure. And are there better cars out there to move onto? Yeah. But I'm enjoying the Panda a lot. I like the size, the spritely feel of its engine, its odd but addictive style and character and much more that many of you tell me the newer model doesn't have. Other small cars, well, they're either dull and boring (the German ones) or trying too hard to be big and expensive complex cars.. Perhaps my taste will change over time, but right now, I like the Panda I have. They're out of production too, so every day, inevitably, somewhere, multiple models are written off or scrapped!

I'm sure Fiat are obliged to produce parts for it until 2022, and even after then, parts will probably be produced for a while - especially as many are shared with the new model. But, after then, lots of parts are sure to become extinct.. By 2030 when the car is the same age as the Orion, it'd be no surprise to also be experiencing basically NO availability of parts. If you were going to keep it, surely now is the time to make the necessary investments.

As much as I think I'd like to keep it for life, I lack the money and skills to do the advanced work now and by the time I have that, it'll probably be like the Orion.. so much money to restore that you'd need a loan to tackle it. I certainly wouldn't imagine that by the time it's, e.g. 25 years old it'd be my only car, but it'd be a fantastic second and inevitably rarer and more valuable in other ways at that point. Some of you, however, have done many interesting projects and have a lot of knowledge about all things car. This is my first proper car, and so far we've had it in Dublin, Manchester, Liverpool and hopefully in the next year Scotland and beyond. All in this little Fiat, a car which is great for everything apparently but long journeys, and I enjoyed it! Sentimental value is rising on it every month! Oh, and I'd like to get it to 200,000 miles .. maybe even 300,000 miles if given the chance! It'd be nice to respond to other peoples criticisms, especially the diesel owners, by having a higher mileage count! Not that it matters in reality, but..

Most people I know thing it's a terrible car based on how it looks, and even my parents when I mention getting another Panda in the future seem to remark "You're not getting another bloody Fiat. You want something decent." .. Not that I agree with any of that for a second, but other peoples attitudes - the non Fiat fans - aren't being considered. Hence why I'm asking for the opinions of you fellow owners:

Are any of you planning to keep your Panda beyond what most people consider 'sanity'?! haha

I dont expect many, but if you are, or have thought about it and decided not, what was your opinion on the 'notion'?

 

[Liquid Knight]

My Fantasia is going nowhere.

 

[DaveMcT]

Mine is the family transport but we look after it and wont be selling or scrapping at the first signs of trouble.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

My puddle-jumper gets used hard - loaded often with all sorts of gear (rear seats flat much of the time), a folding e-bike in the back. It has a permanent roof rack (bolted on cross bars, not clamped), carries a kayak often, and travels many forest tracks.

So it's a real workhorse, not a ming vase. It will stay with us, and I just fix whatever goes wrong. When it finally fails the Mot because of major rot I will scrap it - but that's years ahead yet.

It gets washed whenever I feel like it, and mechanically maintained with care. I have absolutely no intention of ever selling it.

 

[TobiasBB]

I did an initial buy-in of ~2,5k£ in my Climbing this summer, and Ive spend about as much in parts, Im hoping to take her through the Alps come summer, or maybe Norway to have it actually do some climbing... shes 12 years old, 250000km.. so halfway to the 25 years... when bad rot arrives Ill go buy a welding-machine and make her all pretty again... the masterplan is to never sell it, in reality who knows, could get totalled any day with tailgating lorries, speeding race-cars and people texting behind the wheel...

 

[portland_bill]

I went looking for a Panda in early 2010, and found the Alessi. It made us both smile, so we brought it home. It is just coming up for 11years old, and we'll have had it for 7 of those, but still just under 60k miles. We love it to bits, and have never thought of replacing it, and will just look after it for as long as it lasts.

However, rust may get in, and I'm fine with mechanical stuff, not good with bodywork.
Replacement mechanical parts will be available for a long time, as there are lots of these around, all over Europe, and with a 1.2 FIRE engine, used in lots more vehicles, service items should go on for a long time. But Fiat will discontinue parts as soon as their demand drops, regardless of any legislation or commitment, so unique parts will dry up. Like most older cars really, just perhaps sooner.

So if you want to keep it forever, it will take a lot of care. Replaceable parts likely to disappear need stockpiling as the car ages, but rubber parts will age in storage, so suspension bushes will cause grief later. The trick, I suppose is to get it to last just about the same time as yourself. Anyone any idea how to do that?

 

[AndyRKett]

There is a term in psychology called "Choice Supportive Bias" the basics principle of this is that if you have two items and you choose to buy one over the other then you are more likely to ignore the faults with the item you bought while emphasising the faults of the item you didn't buy.

In retrospect when looking back at the reasons behind your choice of one item over the other you will remember all the positive aspects of the thing you chose at that time and you will remember the negative aspects of the thing you didn't choose. So in essence despite all the problems and expense you have had with your car in the short time you've owned it, you continue to consider your car to be very good while downplaying all the problems you've had, while continuing to criticise cars from other manufacturers.

In the face of contradictory information, i.e. Someone suggests that a different car would be better because of better reliability, better reputation better quality or more features. In someone who is upholding a choice supportive bias this leads to cognitive dissonance. This means the person now holds two beliefs that contradict one-another. So...

"My car is the greatest In the world, but this car here is better"

Causes psychological discomfort and an internal dilemma which a person has to try and improve.

This means that people will find ways to uphold the belief about the thing they decided on. There is 4 ways people do this, they either ignore any conflicting information about their belief

"my car is the best in the world and no other car is better no matter what proof you have"

They may justify their own belief.
"My car is better because it's smaller cuter better colour etc"

Move the goals
"That rolls royce might be better, but my car is the best available of all small cars and that's a big car"

Or finally change their point of view.
"Actually you're right my car is crap and I need that car instead.

Essentially it's all very interesting and complicated psychology that is heavily used by manufacturers to put you in and new car and part you from your money.

This thread is in keeping with the theories of cognitive dissonance, it seems your beliefs have been challenged and you are looking for others to support and uphold the belief that has been challenged. (It's fascinating but then I'm weird like that)

There is no reason not to keep your panda for life if that's what you want todo you will find away, I don't know how old you are but I presume as it's your first car you're still quite young.

As you grow older you will move out of home get into and probably out of relationships change jobs etc. As these things change your car needs will change, your panda will get older and as someone pointed out, they're not rust proof for life so the body will deteriorate.
And finally the main problem is it's a cheap car.... it will never greatly appreciate or become worth a fortune even many decades into the future, a 1940s topolino can be bought for ~£8k.

Essentially, unless you plan to lock it in a bubble and keep it only for fun it is almost certainly likely you'll be replacing it and given your age and all of my waffle above, it will likely be in the next couple of years or so, that you'll replace it........

Also fiat will have stopped making new parts for your car now and has no obligation to make new parts, where there is high demand they will continue to make some parts, brake pads for example, but there is no obligation at all for them to keep making parts especially for a car they stopped building 6 years ago.


I knew that degree would come in handy for something [emoji12]

 

[koalar]

I bet in 20 years the original 100hp will have the same collector status as an XR3i as most will be trashed or crashed.

 

[Goudrons]

There's plenty of evidence (not) around that it's likely your car will die a death of one sort or another before it makes 25 years old.

Simple ecomonics kill most cars off.
They become more expensive to repair and run than they are worth.

The 169 is closer to this point than you might think.
Take the rear axle beam, we all know they rust and I believe a new replacement part is around £700, maybe more.

Ok a good used could be snapped up, but they'll all go the same way, sooner or later and if the new ones go out of production, then what?
I can't see these getting to the same of level some classics get to and parts start getting remanufactured by specialist companies.

So now you're faced with a bill for a new axle and labour to fit, (if you can get one). A few might cough up the £'s "for the love", and fit it themselves, though a quick look at Ebay, it's safe to say most owners wouldn't.

So just drive it, enjoy it and when it causes too much wallet pain and hassle, get shut of it.

But writing all that, I'm still in the market for a decent W123 230CE Merc!

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Choice Supportive Bias, as Andy states, is much stronger when feelings of love enter the picture.

It is less controlling if, say, you are handed an object without choice, and then have to use it thereafter. Or, if you simply view the object as a necessary tool, without becoming deeply involved emotionally.

Some on here obviously love their Panda's, and devote much time and care to them. You can see who these owners are by their descriptions of even the smallest detail - ie., colour schemes, types of wheel trims, of mirrors, extras, and so on.

By that criteria, I have another car that I am obviously emotionally involved with. But my little puddle-jumper Panda is looked upon as a wheelbarrow, a shopping trolley, a holdall, a sack barrow - in fact, just a useful workhorse. I have no idea what the detail spec is, or the style of wheel trims or extras it might have.

It goes well, it's fun to drive as long as distances are not great, cheap and easy to fix, and reliable. So it stays with me. That's about it.

 

[Trimdoner]

"Choice Supportive Bias"
Sounds very similar to a motor trade problem (30+ years for my sins..) -
If someone wanted to buy a car, all the good points were stressed, that model was in constant demand and hard to find etc. etc.
If some one wanted to part-ex a car, it suddenly became the most troublesome model in existence, nobody ever wanted one and its value was same as yesterdays newspaper....

Back to Pandas - our last three cars have been bought new and run until totally scrap (always rust, never mechanical), last two at about 12 years.
Our MJ is just about 10 now with 120K. Excellent mechanics etc. up to now, bodywork still sound above and below, so hopefully might last longer than any before

In case anyone wondered, working so many years on cars killed any emotional connection or aesthetic interest I had with cars. As long as it does what it has to that's fine - even a lottery win wouldn't get the Panda replaced yet.

 

[StevenRB45]

In case anyone wondered, working so many years on cars killed any emotional connection or aesthetic interest I had with cars. As long as it does what it has to that's fine - even a lottery win wouldn't get the Panda replaced yet.

If this had come up in 2006 when I was about 3 grand into 1200 quid 3 shades of pink punto I would probably be well into how the character made flaws worth it. Simple fact of the matter was I couldn't afford anything better without finance but couldn't save due to the constant bills and couldn't get finance due to being a student working part time.

Despite this I saved up for my dream Mk1 a 16v 5dr elx, 1 owner low miles all the options in top nick (think Simon16elx car but silver, lower miles, and more powerful). I then spent another 2k tidying it up with a suspension refresh getting dents pulled, panels resprayed and it was on the FF stand at Donny one year. 3 months later the engine died spectacularly (with 68k miles on it) and was blowing exhaust out of the dipstick.

At this point I was done, due to a change in circumstances I had the cash to fix it but I couldn't be bothered anymore and ever since its been a case of my cars stay as long as they aren't a money pit.

 

[SB1500]

I know that the Panda isn't 'the best car in the world' by any stretch.

And I also know that, like Many of you said, rust will be its ending - if it's not totalled by myself or bad luck. Hopefully not though!

I don't think I've convinced myself that it, or Fiat are the best - besides joking or banter! What I really think is; they're my favourite. And I really like this Panda, and the new Panda more than other cars for sale right now. They're not even the cheapest for what they are!

Since being given this car, a car that I wouldn't have chosen in a million years, I have sort of come to like it's oddness and remarkableness. Where the attraction really comes, is the fact that it's surprised me and proved me wrong beyond all of my original beliefs!

If this is a cheap, bargain bin and laughed at make of a car, then I'm surprised. I can't imagine what the expensive and 'good' cars are like.

One thing I am certain about is I want a small car, Panda size or Corsa size at most.

I hope my next car is the new Panda, though as you've said, needs change etc. I know a few people who have families with 3 kids and they use a Yaris / Corsa in 5 door form just fine.

One of the reasons I don't like the VW Up etc is because I just don't like how it looks, not to call it a bad car, I just regard it as dull. As for VW and German cars as a whole, where I live, the finest w*nkers in existence seem to buy them and never shut up about them. That's part of why I wouldn't buy one myself. That doesn't make everyone a bad person who owns one, of course, but in my mind I'll never see myself as an owner! Perhaps that's where my psychology gets a bit weird!

Another big reason to buy another Fiat is this forum. I think it's bloody great. Though it and its members might not be here forever, I'm thoroughly enjoying all of the stuff I've learnt on here. I want that to last as long as possible!

 

[Noxide]

I feel like part of it comes from your personality. To some, they're just cars, but to other people their car is a whole other thing and something special.

I love my Fiat, don't think it's the best car in the world, but I wouldn't want anything else at the moment. And I can't see myself getting rid of it (at least not freely). If I got another car I'd want it in addition, not instead of. My housemate and I have got a Fiat and an Alfa, both constantly arguing that each of ours is better, but equally being the most self-deprecating. I love my car to pieces, it's been incredibly reliable, touch wood, but we kinda do the opposite and play up whatever trait seems most amusing at the time.

My friends dad has a Volvo he's been running since.. well, long long long before i was about. He loves it to pieces, he's forked out a fortune on keeping this Volvo running just out of a matter of principle and sentimentality. He told me I should keep my 500 the same. Lovely chap.

 

[Johnbee]

An interesting topic with many valid comments.

I myself, can't see me keeping my pair of Pandas for life but I think I'll always have 'a Panda or two' Progressed from selectas, colours, CLX's with bull bars & of course Poppi, on to the MK3's and my current Active and Cross serve me very well and suit my needs spot on.

Blu and Fugly are my 8th and 9th consecutive Pandas during about 10 years. Blu has been with me over 6 years now.

 

[jrkitching]

My friends dad has a Volvo he's been running since.. well, long long long before i was about. He loves it to pieces, he's forked out a fortune on keeping this Volvo running just out of a matter of principle and sentimentality. He told me I should keep my 500 the same. Lovely chap.

Since this thread is descending toward psychobabble, I'd suggest that continuing to do something in order to validate past behaviour is one of the most limiting ways of being that I know of (with all due respect to your friends dad).

 

[portland_bill]

All of this highlights how Fiats seem to grab us emotionally, whereas few other cars do. A detailed analysis will show up a simple, cheaply made car, built from metal and plastic, just like all the rest, but we still love them.
Years ago, when Top Gear magazine were sponsoring the JD Power motoring survey, Alfa were consistently at the bottom of the pile. The cars tended to be with the dealer more than the owner, so scored low in almost all areas of reliability, but when asked would you have another, they were at the top of the list.
My Panda is cheaply made, that makes me smile, it is not pretending to be anything else. But then it does what it is meant to do, does it well, and keeps doing it. The silly colour scheme still makes me smile every day too.
I have the use of a new Fiesta, 1.0 100hp. Replaced annually, all repairs and maintenance covered. It is a job car, AA Driving School livery, looking smart outside, and quite posh inside. Sitting in it, it tries to impress, looking quite expensive inside. But underneath the skin, it will be as cheaply made as Ford can get away with, something they've been good at for a long time. It is easier to drive than the Panda, especially on longer journeys, and it will only cost me fuel to use it as much as I like. Given the choice, I'll take the Panda. Nuts! But it is a happy car, and makes me smile. The Fiesta is just white goods, no emotion, no sadness when it departs.

If we all looked at cars rationally, we'd all have a Toyota Corolla.

 

[DaveMcT]

To be honest I do get jrkitching's comment about validating somebody else's strange economic behaviour.

If that Volvo is a P1800 :worship: I could fully understand the wish to keep it going. Even the old 240s were great cars. But some of the later models are nothing special and good money after bad soon sets in.

The Panda certainly has soul and its cheap to repair, but there is always a time when the effort is not worth the returns.

The 100HP is likely to become a future classic but don't expect much for at least 20 years and by then we might be obliged to drive electric cars with s**ty old petrol being banned to race tracks.

Basic Pandas will be always be worth next to nothing.

If you really want driving experience get a bike licence. Bikes are about the journey. Cars (all of them) are about getting to the end of the journey.

 

[SB1500]

To be honest I do get jrkitching's comment about validating somebody else's strange economic behaviour.

If that Volvo is a P1800 :worship: I could fully understand the wish to keep it going. Even the old 240s were great cars. But some of the later models are nothing special and good money after bad soon sets in.

The Panda certainly has soul and its cheap to repair, but there is always a time when the effort is not worth the returns.

The 100HP is likely to become a future classic but don't expect much for at least 20 years and by then we might be obliged to drive electric cars with s**ty old petrol being banned to race tracks.

Basic Pandas will be always be worth next to nothing.

If you really want driving experience get a bike licence. Bikes are about the journey. Cars (all of them) are about getting to the end of the journey.

I'd love to get a scooter/bike but all of my close friends / family (even ones who are qualified to ride unlimited engine size bikes!) tell me it's not worth it due to the risk and danger :-/

 

[StevenRB45]

I'd love to get a scooter/bike but all of my close friends / family (even ones who are qualified to ride unlimited engine size bikes!) tell me it's not worth it due to the risk and danger :-/

Tbf probably right on that, guy I went to school with got a scooter at 16 to get road experience before his driving test. Except of course he ended up being behind everyone else who hadn't done that as he fell off and broke his arm shortly before he was due to start his car lessons.

Although my best man had a yahama R6 for several years, did track days did Sunday rides etc. Didn't fall off or get injured at any point. Tried to get me to join him but given I was always the one to have spectacular crashes when we did downhill MTB I passed. Never actually broken any bones..but wasn't for the want of trying.