Technical Anyone fitted Panda 30 coil wasted spark?

[lazylobster]

Hi, as per the title. I believe this setup gets rid of the dist cap and rota. Less to wear etc. Anyone fitted it? Seen some of the site have it for sale but I've no idea what the wiring would be?
R

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Hi Rob, I have the complete late 126 (from May 1985 on) and/or Panda 30 system on my car and it works faultlessly - almost fit adjust and forget!!!! The initial 126 variants used the Marelli S152A electronic rotorless distributor, later the Polish variant went over to the Elmot dizzy. The Elmot type is fitted in my car. There is no difference between the two and they are interchangeable. They do not incorporate a rotor arm or cap with HT leads, the system runs on an LT feed through the coil primary winding interrupted by a set of breaker points to induce the spark voltage in the secondary windings. The coil is a 'Dry' twin pack that must be protected by a 'Ballast Resistor' in the ignition feed line - if not used you run the real risk of cooking the coil with too high a voltage feed. In operation the coil fires both plugs at the same time all of the time regardless of the cylinder stroke, so one spark is 'lost' every time. In my experience the engine(s) I have start and run extremely well and apart from normal service needs the points don't need fiddling with, I have always used the best capacitor (expensive) I can and have only had one failure in operation. I use cooler plugs (in my application) and find they work well too. All in all I find that both the dizzy and capacitor are not affected by heat the system is reliable and simple to operate. I will look out a wiring diagram if I can.
Ian.

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Hi Rob, please find attached a simple wiring diagram for the system. You Must use a key operated ignition switch in the circuit and the diagram indicates the position of the Ballast in the circuit. You will also require a 126 type of starter motor with wiring and bell housing to suit if you don't already have them. All of the parts are available from Axel Gerstl or others.
Ian.

 

[lazylobster]

Hi Ian, I'm much obliged for the verbose info to my question. It's something I may consider for the future. I have electronic hall effect ignition at the moment. Working very well, but I'm aware that some have reported failures due to heat. So I'm exploring future options.

My best
Rob

 

[The Whitakers]

Morning all, I am running a wasted spark set up also and from memory I’ve got an Accuspark system in the distributor. As life is a lesson I do not think there is a ballast resistor in there so that will have to be investigated and sourced if not, any info regarding this will be gratefully received.

Rob

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Hi Rob, the basic function of the ballast is to reduce to chances of Voltage and Current failure/overload in the ignition circuit, once the engine has started the corresponding voltage drop ceases and the ballast reduces the otherwise maximum supply through the ignition circuit. As far as I can determine as you have an electronic dizzy you don't need a ballast.
Ian.

 

[lazylobster]

Hi Rob, the basic function of the ballast is to reduce to chances of Voltage and Current failure/overload in the ignition circuit, once the engine has started the corresponding voltage drop ceases and the ballast reduces the otherwise maximum supply through the ignition circuit. As far as I can determine as you have an electronic dizzy you don't need a ballast.
Ian.

Also, think they used if you have a 1.5 OHM coil. If you running a 3 OHM coil then not needed.
The other Rob

 

[itsalovelydaytoday]

Morning all, I am running a wasted spark set up also and from memory I’ve got an Accuspark system in the distributor. As life is a lesson I do not think there is a ballast resistor in there so that will have to be investigated and sourced if not, any info regarding this will be gratefully received.

Rob

Hi Rob. I am trying to set up the same system as you using the wasted spark coil and an accuspark module. I don't seem to be able to get the wiring right - can you describe how yours is wired or maybe a diagram? Many thanks.

 

[lazylobster]

Hi Rob. I am trying to set up the same system as you using the wasted spark coil and an accuspark module. I don't seem to be able to get the wiring right - can you describe how yours is wired or maybe a diagram? Many thanks.

Morning, I have a powerspark (same as Accuspark) but use a standard coil. I've not setup the wasted spark dual coil. I was investigating to see if worth it.
R

 

[The Whitakers]

Hi Rob. I am trying to set up the same system as you using the wasted spark coil and an accuspark module. I don't seem to be able to get the wiring right - can you describe how yours is wired or maybe a diagram? Many thanks.

Hi mate, I’ll take some pics and send you a description. Pm me your number so I can text/WhatsApp you as it’s easier for me

 

[the hobbler]

Hi mate, I’ll take some pics and send you a description. Pm me your number so I can text/WhatsApp you as it’s easier for me

I have fitted a 'wasted spark' system onto my '695' replica using a Powespark ignition, a distributor cover from Ricambio and a Magneti Marelli coil p/no:--060717029012 (which costs about £10 exc carriage and VAT). If anybody wants some pictures of it, contact me [email protected]

 

[RDS]

I discussed this with a "long time" mechanic in Italy a few weeks ago. He wanted me to move over to the 126 wasted spark coil and he was adamant (despite my explaining about the resistance difference) that the ballast resistor was not needed!! I declined: of course, if the 126 coil is 1.5Ohm and there is no ballast resistor, it will burn out in due course unless a resistor is added.

I'm tempted nevertheless to make a proper job of it. However, surely if a 12v feed is taken from the starter motor solenoid (starter side) to the coil, the lever start will dispense with the need for a sprung type ignition/starter switch? ie pulling up the lever gives 12v to the coil for the short start up routing. When the starter lever is returned the 12v ceases and the 9v supply via the ballast resistor takes over to the wasted spark coil - or is this theory incorrect because there a point where the 12v and 9v are both being supplied to the coil (ie via the starter and via the ignition switch) and that's why you need a sprung type switch?

I cannot see this in practice because the battery is 12v not 24v!

RDS

 

[the hobbler]

I discussed this with a "long time" mechanic in Italy a few weeks ago. He wanted me to move over to the 126 wasted spark coil and he was adamant (despite my explaining about the resistance difference) that the ballast resistor was not needed!! I declined: of course, if the 126 coil is 1.5Ohm and there is no ballast resistor, it will burn out in due course unless a resistor is added.

I'm tempted nevertheless to make a proper job of it. However, surely if a 12v feed is taken from the starter motor solenoid (starter side) to the coil, the lever start will dispense with the need for a sprung type ignition/starter switch? ie pulling up the lever gives 12v to the coil for the short start up routing. When the starter lever is returned the 12v ceases and the 9v supply via the ballast resistor takes over to the wasted spark coil - or is this theory incorrect because there a point where the 12v and 9v are both being supplied to the coil (ie via the starter and via the ignition switch) and that's why you need a sprung type switch?

I cannot see this in practice because the battery is 12v not 24v!

RDS

I have used a standard

I discussed this with a "long time" mechanic in Italy a few weeks ago. He wanted me to move over to the 126 wasted spark coil and he was adamant (despite my explaining about the resistance difference) that the ballast resistor was not needed!! I declined: of course, if the 126 coil is 1.5Ohm and there is no ballast resistor, it will burn out in due course unless a resistor is added.

I'm tempted nevertheless to make a proper job of it. However, surely if a 12v feed is taken from the starter motor solenoid (starter side) to the coil, the lever start will dispense with the need for a sprung type ignition/starter switch? ie pulling up the lever gives 12v to the coil for the short start up routing. When the starter lever is returned the 12v ceases and the 9v supply via the ballast resistor takes over to the wasted spark coil - or is this theory incorrect because there a point where the 12v and 9v are both being supplied to the coil (ie via the starter and via the ignition switch) and that's why you need a sprung type switch?

I cannot see this in practice because the battery is 12v not 24v!

RDS

As I mentioned previously, the Magneti Marelli coil that I have used (060717029012) seems to be a 3ohm coil. I have used it for quite a while now without any problem. It does NOT have a ballast resistor. Contact me direct if you want a picture of the installation

 

[RDS]

I have used a standard

As I mentioned previously, the Magneti Marelli coil that I have used (060717029012) seems to be a 3ohm coil. I have used it for quite a while now without any problem. It does NOT have a ballast resistor. Contact me direct if you want a picture of the installation

thanks, the item i looked at was 1.5Ohm

i'll pm you.

 

[RDS]

Ref my longer post above, of course the voltages supplied by different routes are not cumulative. The current will take the easier path on starting and by pass the ballast resistor, then take the only path through it when the starter is disengaged.