General Another newbie in need of advice...

[Giorgio]

Dear all,

After some months of reading, I've just signed up for this forum. I am considering buying a barchetta (and have secretly wanted to do so for quite some time). I've read a lot of threads in this forum over the last year or so and looked in detail at the Barchetta Lexikon (a German website for all things barchetta which also has a very comprehensive used car checklist), whilst at the same time searching various websites for used b.s.

I found one yesterday which looks very tempting.
It's a 54-reg Mk2, first registered in Sept 2004, which has done nearly 33k miles. Asking price is £5495. The dealer gave me the following additiional information over the phone:

- The car does come with a red master key. (This was the first question I asked the dealer!)
- The vehicle has a "partial" service history as stamped in the log book. It had a 12,000 mile/annual service done in Oct 2005 at 10,200 miles and another service (24,000 mile service?) at the end of 2006 at 17,500 miles. Both were done by the Fiat dealer who originally supplied the car from new and where it is now for sale. The 24k service appears to be the most recent one that has been done, so no record of an annual service in late 2007 or late 2008. The salesman I spoke to pointed out that the car may have been serviced elsewhere after the 24k service was done, as the warranty on the car expired in Sept 07 and the owner may simply have gone elsewhere to get it serviced after that. (Although if this is the case it makes me wonder why he then went back to the dealer for other works - see below.)
- Other repairs/maintenance: The dealer said that at the end of 2007 they replaced the offside door seal and fixed a faulty airbag light. The dealership last saw the car back in November 2008, when they fitted a new exhaust. Also, the rear window apparently currently has a crack, but the dealer said they are getting the rear window changed in the next few
days.
- Cam belt/variator/water pump. I've asked whether the belt had been changed, but it seems it hasn't - according to the dealer, the interval for a cam belt change is 70,000 miles or 6 years (!?! - 6 years sounds a *very* long time to me - I'd expect it to be nearer to 4 years.)
Forum consensus seems to be to get cam belt, follower/tensioner/bearing, variator and water pump all changed at the same time. I've not done a test drive yet so I've not heard the engine and therefore don't know if it has turned into a Diesel yet ;-) If I decide to buy the vehicle, I would be inclined to get the belt/variator changed sooner rather than later anyway, to have peace of mind.

I would be grateful for some advice from the forum:

1) Service history. Obviously a full service history is desirable, and I realise it is impossible to give a qualified opinion without looking at the car, but based on the information above, does this sound like a vehicle worth looking at? Or would you walk away from anything without a FSH? Dealer mentioned the possibility that the vehicle has been serviced elsewhere in the meantime and that these services simply have not been stamped in the log book - Would independent specialists also stamp the service book if they service a car?
Judging by the dates of the inspection services I estimate that the vehicle has done about 7-8k miles per year, so hopefully it shouldn't have been thrashed about too much.

2) Servicing. In another thread, LittleRedB recommends going for a reliable local garage rather than a dealer. Apart from a having a reliable local garage, would it make sense to also know a specialist, "just in case"? If so, can anyone recommend one in the East Midlands?

I can't think of anything else at the moment.
Thanks for taking the time to read all this, and also thanks in advance for any comments/suggestions!

Regards
Giorgio

 

[silverbarchetta]

Hi Giorgio and welcome to the forum!

Where in the East Mids are you? I live in Nottingham and there are a few other bs about in the vicinity.

Before commenting on that car in particular there are a few things worth considering. It is a great time to buy a car and it's a buyers market so you should be able to get yourself a great deal. There are always plenty of barchettas around if you're prepared to travel and values have dropped recently. Regarding the mk2s, some forum members seem to have had more than their fair share of problems with these considering that they're really quite new with low mileages. They were built in a seperate factory from the mk1s and quality may have suffered. In addition they generally seem to be lower spec and stuff like leather or aircon is unusual. Just somethings to bear in mind if you're paying the extra for a mk2.

Regarding the history, whatever garage services a car should stamp the book. At the very least, receipts for the work should be available. The interval you mention without a documented service is way too long irrespective of the mileage. A main contributing factor for variator failure is dirty oil and low mileage suggests short journeys which is not ideal in itself.

The recommended interval for belt changes is [I think] about 6 years according to Fiat but just about everyone else would probably half that. In any case the car you mention is coming up for 5 years old now and I think you would be entitled to ask for a new belt and variator if you were buying it.

I haven't any experience of local garages with the barchetta, mine has always been serviced by DTR in London who I would recommend. I've heard good reports of MGC in Nottingham though.

Hope this helps a bit, well done for a great choice of car and good luck finding a great one!

Stuart

 

[MattB2k]

I think you can get a good car with no service history and a bad car with full dealer services. With these Fiats it seems like a fair old lottery. There are a couple of schools of thought, buy the best you can afford (it will only be as good as the test drive documents and appearance). Or, buy one the colour you want at the price you want to pay. Fact is that barring finding an utter peach or a total lemon either path will take you into the wonderful world of the Barchetta where even the big bills seem worth paying because the car is such a little cracker.

I am an advocate of MGC in Nottingham, they did my heater matrix all my services including the cam belts and variator. They have also pointed me at good other local specialists for body work exhausts and wheel alignment.

 

[LittleRedB]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

As the guys have said now is a good time to buy and don't be afraid to push for a service and/or discount if you do go for the b.

Generally speaking the engine of the b is bullet proof as long as its serviced regularly - its difficult to tell without seeing the car though. Usually my rule of thumb is walk away if it does not have FSH but that said the last time we had the missus car serviced the garage never stamped the book and she could not be assed to take it back to the garage to get them to stamp it!

The work that has been carried out in the past is standard stuff, the airbag light will have gone off 'cos someone adjusted the seat with the engine on, the exhausts are big and made of cheap mild steel so have a tendency to rust and crack. I would be concerned at the lack of CAM belt changed and if you go for the car get the dealer to replace the cam belt, variator, tensioners and followers - otherwise negotiate a £400 discount as that is what DTR would charge to change them.

If you are in any way worried ask the dealer for a 12 month warranty, it will cost circa £300 but if you have any doubts or worries it could be money well spent.

As for dealers, I would always suggest a local indie garage over a dealer or franchise. Indies tend to be run and staffed by mechanics (who repair things rather than replace them), dealers tend to be staffed by fitters (who replace things rather than repair them) - I know that this is a sweeping statement and may not be totally representative of all dealers but as an ex-mechanic I know where dealers make their margin!

There are loads of threads on the forum about what to look for when buying a b, take time to surf through and make sure you look at the car a couple of times before you part with your hard earned cash. Remember, we are entering a time of much financial turmoil and 'fun' cars will not be as much in demand as they have in the past 10 years - you should be able to drive a bargain!

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[silkblack]

Giorgio, with apologies to the moderators - I may have to (ok will have to) sell my beloved B in the near future. I have owned it from new but as I am losing my left leg and can hardly walk/sit/stand/lie down without extreme agony, much less drive, I will have to admit defeat. However, I only want the car to go to a B enthusiast. It as a 1999 LE (German market) imported by Autohaven in 1999 and registered new to me. It is in silk black, red roof, red cross-stitched leather interior, electric windows, electric mirrors, 6cd oem autochanger in the boot, electric aerial, front fogs, original mats in black piped red, 8,000 (eight thousand) miles, full fiat service history (every service, every twelve months, regardless), fully synthetic shell helix ultra or selenia racing oil from new, cambelt changed 2 years ago, immaculate interior, rarely driven in rain, never in winter, has all bills since new, all previous mots etc etc, current MOT til August. The only things it needs to make it perfect are the lower sills (painted in stonechip black) need re-painting and the radiator shield (which you can see on the docs pages 47-49) need replacing but I already have all the brand new parts from Fiat including new nuts & bolts & rubber seal to do this but for obvious reasons have not been able to do it myself. This is not a classified ad rolleyes- I will not sell the car willy nilly, but if a true B enthusiast (like Alan D or you) would take over custodianship of my car and look after it like me, that would make me very happy.

 

[silkblack]

Sorry - forgot to say, the B is totally original - it is effectively identical to a Riviera spec car but without the "drive by wire" throttle (a good thing!). It also has the back speaker box with the Fiat (paper) speakers and the windstop.

 

[LittleRedB]

Silkyblack, sorry to hear about your situation - I hope that there is some form of pain relief available to you.

Giorgio, this could be the best b you will lay your hands on.............I would be very tempted myself as I would love an original unmolested car but priorities are ever shifting at the moment and buying another b is not an option!

 

[silkblack]

Thanks for the kind words LRB - sadly nothing for pain at all. I am allergic to aspirin, paracetomol, elastoplast, NSAIDs, entonox, morphine, ace inhibitors, beta blockers, anaesthetics (local, general and spinal block) and have adverse reactions to adrenaline epidurals etc etc etc. The last time the (very good and extremely professional) guys tried to operate on me to fix the socket, they ended up calling two more anaethetists and the medico-legal guy - and that was for a pre-med and spinal block! They very politely asked me never to go back to their hospital again! Ever! Trouble is, if I have an accident and need any form of surgery, in the words of the doc, I'm scr***d. The greatest pain will be letting the B go though - that car was for my daughters to drive forever

 

[Giorgio]

Thanks for the warm welcome to the forum and all your suggestions so far!
Sorry I haven't been back earlier, I've been quite busy at work.
Just to respond briefly to a few of your posts:

Where in the East Mids are you? I live in Nottingham and there are a few other bs about in the vicinity.

I live down the road from you, just outside Loughborough.

Regarding the mk2s, [...] they generally seem to be lower spec and stuff like leather or aircon is unusual. Just somethings to bear in mind if you're paying the extra for a mk2.

From what I gather, leather wasn't available at all on the Mk2 (although I could be wrong). As far as aircon is concerned, having looked at cars advertised on various websites, it seems that more of the Mk2s for sale in Germany have aircon than the ones in this country - no idea why.
The reason I'm looking at a Mk2 is partly that I would like to get a vehicle that is as young as possible. This is based on an assumption that the older a car gets, the more likely it is that things will go wrong. I've noticed this on my other car, which is now almost 10 years old, and even though it has a FSH the bills are starting to get a bit bigger than what they were 7-8 years ago.

I think you can get a good car with no service history and a bad car with full dealer services. With these Fiats it seems like a fair old lottery. There are a couple of schools of thought, buy the best you can afford (it will only be as good as the test drive documents and appearance). Or, buy one the colour you want at the price you want to pay.

I am an advocate of MGC in Nottingham, they did my heater matrix all my services including the cam belts and variator. They have also pointed me at good other local specialists for body work exhausts and wheel alignment.

In my case, the colour is important (red!). Having said that, I would like to get the best red one I can afford - money is (almost) no issue. But the description of silkblack's car does sound very tempting nonetheless!

Thanks also for your recommendation of a local specialist. I'm not sure I want to take a day off and travel to London to DTR every time a service is due or something needs fixing.

silkblack, I'm also very sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds very grave. It must be so much worse if there isn't any pain relief available for you! :-(

LRB, thank you for your technical advice. You also mention trying to get the dealer to give it a used car warranty. The car I am interested in should come with a 12 month warranty as it is being sold by a Fiat main dealer, and the blurb on the Fiat website says that all their used vehicles come with a 12 month warranty. Apparently they will also do the latest service completed and recorded in the log book. Still, I'll try and test drive her this weekend to get a better idea.

Regards
Giorgio

 

[silkblack]

Ah - it HAS to be red, eh? S'funny, I knew someone else on here once who mistakenly thought red was the best colour for a B .

Good luck with the test drive over the weekend - and for servicing, if you could face a 1 & 1/2 hour drive up the A1, Walkers Garage are the bees knees. They are the UK factory appointed Lancia Integrale experts, have a FIAT franchise but are a small village operation, family owned and run and are genuine enthusiasts (they enter Stilo rally cars they prepare and service in Rally of Wales etc) and proper mechanics! 01609 777221 - ask for Steve Shaw!

Thanks for your thoughts; it is pretty frustrating but it comes from something I've had since I was three, so you just keep going!

Richard