Technical Air Conditioning Gas Life

[ClassicFiat500]

Can anyone tell me how long the Air Con gas would normally last on a 595 (car does 1000 miles a year) with climate control? The reason for the question is I have just had my gas recharged due to the fact it has only lasted 2 years now blowing normal non chilled air. I took the car into an air con garage where they checked for leaks & said it was 75% low on gas with NO leaks, they re gassed it & it is now blowing cold air . Their comments were “We recommend Re Gassing Air Con every 2 years on some cars” especially if the car is used very little
So my question is Does this sound a reasonable reply?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Keep the air con on by default. It reduces the risk of premature failure by circulating gas, and lubricant. My Panda is 6 and still ice cold. MES will indicate aircon system pressure so you can self monitor if you get access. See the MES register on here

 

[A3jeroen]

Like the tires on your bike it will never seal 100%. So loosing some refrigerant every year is normal. Every 2 years regassing sounds a little too much IMHO.

gr J

 

[ZaphodB]

The reason for the question is I have just had my gas recharged due to the fact it has only lasted 2 years now blowing normal non chilled air. I took the car into an air con garage where they checked for leaks & said it was 75% low on gas with NO leaks, they re gassed it & it is now blowing cold air . Their comments were “We recommend Re Gassing Air Con every 2 years on some cars” especially if the car is used very little

Well they would say every two years wouldn't they they've got a machine to pay for.

.... and if there were truly NO leaks ... where did the 25% go .....

As others have said, leave it on all the time, it'll still work whether you're heating or chilling the cab, and it keeps the added oil circulated.

It does have a single digit % effect on fuel economy, but being used is better than leaving it off, the fuel economy you lose leaving the windows down is higher.

Apart from gradual minute leakage from seals, the biggest gas leakage is the condensor (the aircon radiator) eventually springing a leak due to corrosion.

Lastly I hope they didn't just top it up, if they did a proper leak test they evacuate the entire system and vacuum test it for a time period to check for leaks (loss in vacuum will show).
They should have pumped new gas and a set amount of lube oil, it'll be on the car somewhere on a label what amount.

 

[ClassicFiat500]

Well they would say every two years wouldn't they they've got a machine to pay for.

.... and if there were truly NO leaks ... where did the 25% go .....

As others have said, leave it on all the time, it'll still work whether you're heating or chilling the cab, and it keeps the added oil circulated.

It does have a single digit % effect on fuel economy, but being used is better than leaving it off, the fuel economy you lose leaving the windows down is higher.

Apart from gradual minute leakage from seals, the biggest gas leakage is the condensor (the aircon radiator) eventually springing a leak due to corrosion.

Lastly I hope they didn't just top it up, if they did a proper leak test they evacuate the entire system and vacuum test it for a time period to check for leaks (loss in vacuum will show).
They should have pumped new gas and a set amount of lube oil, it'll be on the car somewhere on a label what amount.

Hi Zaphod Fully appreciate you input, I asked them prior to topping up the gas “can you check for any leaks” he answered with a definite YES ! When I picked up the car to my surprise he said he checked for leaks & there were 100% NONE charged £60 & it is still working with nice cool air.
The odd one though is when i bought the car back in 2002 The garage I took it to Glyn Hopkins Fiat agent (since losses the dealership) in MK for a health check (the air con was working) but they said they wanted £3k to replace the condenser & new break pads, I declined their offer as the car was under a so called warranty as I had just bought it from a reputable Abarth Dealer. When the Abarth dealer in Southampton I bought it from looked at the G/H report & said there is nothing wrong with the condenser. Not long after that Glyn Hopkins lost the agency.
I HATE main Dealers of any make vehicles, they all seem to play on the fact they can make so much money on so called after sales & service.
So at the end of the day it looks as if it is going to cost me £60 every 2 years to top it up I don’t mind that. Still love the car & gives me a smile inside every time I use it

 

[ZaphodB]

Hi Zaphod Fully appreciate you input, I asked them prior to topping up the gas “can you check for any leaks” he answered with a definite YES ! When I picked up the car to my surprise he said he checked for leaks & there were 100% NONE charged £60 & it is still working with nice cool air.
The odd one though is when i bought the car back in 2002 The garage I took it to Glyn Hopkins Fiat agent (since losses the dealership) in MK for a health check (the air con was working) but they said they wanted £3k to replace the condenser & new break pads, I declined their offer as the car was under a so called warranty as I had just bought it from a reputable Abarth Dealer. When the Abarth dealer in Southampton I bought it from looked at the G/H report & said there is nothing wrong with the condenser. Not long after that Glyn Hopkins lost the agency.
I HATE main Dealers of any make vehicles, they all seem to play on the fact they can make so much money on so called after sales & service.
So at the end of the day it looks as if it is going to cost me £60 every 2 years to top it up I don’t mind that. Still love the car & gives me a smile inside every time I use it

Been there, done that with a merc main dealer .... I wouldn't trust them to lie straight in bed

My previous car was on it's 10th (year) service a few months ago, and they went through the stuff... and said it needs an aircon fill... fully that it was working absolutely fine with cold air when I dropped it off.
I was on a service plan with them (since new), and I did certain stuff over those ten years, brakes, exhaust , battery etc, and they did all the planned service stuff.

At about 6 (or 7) years I decided to replace the battery (preventative) , replaced the smart branded battery with a nice new Exide, ordered a battery clamp from the dealer (as it was rusty) , but managed to clean up the old one and just kept the new one as a spare for future.

Anyway...... 18 months later ... just after a service from the dealer I noticed a subtle slowing of the cranking speed ..... odd I thought (because I knew the battery was virtually brand new (and still under warranty).... so I thought, bugger... worse case could be the starter

Anyway, slow cranking wasn't getting better so I decided to confirm alternator was outputting ... and it was .....

Then I had to double take as I spotted the battery !!..... it had miraculously changed back into a smart branded battery in 18 months !!!

Someone at the dealer had stolen the battery , I had the exide receipt to prove I'd fitted a new non-smart battery , and also the parts order for the battery clamp .... so my story was iron-clad.
That dealer was the only dealer that even worked on my car in ten years , I trusted them.... even tyres I had done in front of me at work by a mobile fitter, so the only time that car left my side was when it went to the merc dealer ..

I had them by the short and curlies - the service manager replaced the battery free of charge with a brand new smart branded battery.
The cranking speed was back to normal of course.

And my parting words were you've got a thief working amongst you

 

[ClassicFiat500]

Been there, done that with a merc main dealer .... I wouldn't trust them to lie straight in bed

My previous car was on it's 10th (year) service a few months ago, and they went through the stuff... and said it needs an aircon fill... fully that it was working absolutely fine with cold air when I dropped it off.
I was on a service plan with them (since new), and I did certain stuff over those ten years, brakes, exhaust , battery etc, and they did all the planned service stuff.

At about 6 (or 7) years I decided to replace the battery (preventative) , replaced the smart branded battery with a nice new Exide, ordered a battery clamp from the dealer (as it was rusty) , but managed to clean up the old one and just kept the new one as a spare for future.

Anyway...... 18 months later ... just after a service from the dealer I noticed a subtle slowing of the cranking speed ..... odd I thought (because I knew the battery was virtually brand new (and still under warranty).... so I thought, bugger... worse case could be the starter

Anyway, slow cranking wasn't getting better so I decided to confirm alternator was outputting ... and it was .....

Then I had to double take as I spotted the battery !!..... it had miraculously changed back into a smart branded battery in 18 months !!!

Someone at the dealer had stolen the battery , I had the exide receipt to prove I'd fitted a new non-smart battery , and also the parts order for the battery clamp .... so my story was iron-clad.
That dealer was the only dealer that even worked on my car in ten years , I trusted them.... even tyres I had done in front of me at work by a mobile fitter, so the only time that car left my side was when it went to the merc dealer ..

I had them by the short and curlies - the service manager replaced the battery free of charge with a brand new smart branded battery.
The cranking speed was back to normal of course.

And my parting words were you've got a thief working amongst you

Very interesting & believable, every year when either of my 2 cars are due for a service I dread the situation 1st we all look out for the service book when buying another second hand car, but then you have to decipher if the stamps are genuine or not then you have to decide if you would only buy if they are `Main Dealer stamped books. I personally will NOT now a have main dealer Garage service my cars. I know that probably has a slight detriment on the re-sale but in my mind if you can find a garage that specialises in lets say Abarth or Alpha etc they are the ones to go for, they should know more about the car & are more passionate. It’s worth the slight drop in resale value. I have had 65 years of owning cars I am now on my 84th car & loved everyone of them but then I see an advert for that little bit of something else & different & can’t resist it although I have slowed down now as I am just coming up to 80 & still love the sound & handling of my 595 (even though the air con gas only lasts a couple of years)

 

[ZaphodB]

84th car

personally will NOT now a have main dealer Garage service my cars.

Me either , absolutely no way Jose

I too was doing it for resale value , I would only hand them the servicing part of it (and MOT's) just to get the stamp, everything else I did.
The servicing plan started out at just £15 a month... after ten years it was £25 (so not such a good deal towards the end)

They did on a couple of occasions help out (because I had service history loyalty) squeeze in a coupld of slightly out of warranty things.
A clearly bad apple in the organisation stole my battery and they couldn't find out who, he's obviously still there hiding in plain sight.

Wasn't just the battery thief though, one service I knew it was supposed to have spark plugs, it was x years or x miles (whichever came sooner), when I discovered they hadn't changed them, I had to push them to get them replaced

But in hindsight .... a main dealer .....never ever again

 

[ClassicFiat500]

My worst problem arose also from a Merc dealer in Bedford many years ago, I bought a used 500sl 1987 privately, model (107) took the car to Arlingtons Mercedes as it was then, for a full service at least they changed the plugs but left all the old ones 8 under the bonnet, one wedged itself between the bulkhead so with the engine running it created a loud knocking noise and dented the bulkhead, it could have been much more serious so that put me off main dealers for ever apart from their exorbitant prices and stuck up attitude that makes them think they are all like Donald Trump! Being above everyone else.

 

[ClassicFiat500]

Shame this thread has taken an interesting subject away from Air Con problems and now re appears on Con problems from Main Dealers, but still interesting

 

[ZaphodB]

Shame this thread has taken an interesting subject away from Air Con problems and now re appears on Con problems from Main Dealers, but still interesting

Sincere apologies for inadvertently diverting (I don't think we hijacked it, rather it morphed) your original topic , sometimes happens something morphs into another.
We got your original problem sorted, admins feel free to split this thread if needed.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

To answer your original question is, the gas will last indefinitely, it’s not the gas going bad or wearing out in some way that is the issue, it’s the leaking out which is the problem. In that case the time the gas will last will vary from one car to another.

When they leak check the system they do it one of two ways either they pull a vacuum on the system and then hold that vacuum for 30 mins, if there is no change in the internal pressure of the system they will say there are “no leaks” they then also might gas the system and use an electronic device to “sniff” around the joints to look for any signs of leaking gas. No alarm = “no leaks” but this doesn’t mean there are no leaks and you can never say there are 100% no leaks in the system as even 1g of refrigerant leaking out per day is enough to empty a system in a year to the point the aircon stops working.

Re-gassing a system can lead to super tiny leaks, seals which are normally compressed and sealed tight are subject to vacuum forces while being leak tested which can pull joints apart on a microscopic level, tiny leaks can develop combined with age those seals can start to crack and break down so just “opening” the system can affect How long it holds gas for.

2 years isn’t that bad on an older car but it maybe a sign that some of the seals in the pipe work are getting old and need replacing.
You could also have some super tiny holes in the condenser which is often a point of failure due to being bare alloy and exposed to road salt and flying stones.

If you got the system evacuated, changed the condenser and then changed all the o-rings in the system it would probably go 5+ years before needing to be gassed again.

So to answer your question, it depends on age, it depends on how the system is used and how it’s looked after and in some cases it can depend on how many times it’s re-gassed