Technical Adventures with a '67 500F

[dangfiat]

Hi All,

Sorry for the rapid fire questions but I'm trying to get all the parts to get my "new to me" '67 500F daily driveable on the California streets

BTW: I'm calling him Jr (pending a mind change ) He makes my Riley Elf look like a Cadillac!

Anyway: The engine is a 650 from the 126P. I'm looking to do a few things like rebuild the carb and switch to pertronix or accuspark instead of points

Currently have a few question:
1. I saw mention of a "square head". How do I tell which head I have?
2. Distributer/Ignition: Is there an easy way to tell which distributer & ignition system I have? Will need that to change to electronic from points
3. For the carb, I assume it's a 28IMB. I guess I'll just look for a 126p based rebuild kit for it
4. Fuel tank cap: Vented or not vented? I'm guessing vented, but the car smells of fuel too much

Thanks all for the help. I'm off to search the forums relentlessly. Fun times learning all about this little beastie

Daniel

 

[Toshi 975]

Hi Daniel , the best way to get quick accurate answers is to post pictures on here supported by as much information as you can give.
I would think it unlikely that you have a square cylinder head as they were only fitted to the German Bambino version of the 126. The other square head is the desirable twin port Panda 30 one which would normally be fitted as part of a tuning package.

 

[the hobbler]

Hi Daniel , the best way to get quick accurate answers is to post pictures on here supported by as much information as you can give.
I would think it unlikely that you have a square cylinder head as they were only fitted to the German Bambino version of the 126. The other square head is the desirable twin port Panda 30 one which would normally be fitted as part of a tuning package.View attachment 418722

The easiest way to tell what sort of ignition you have is to remove the distributor cap and look. If you have a Riley Elf as another 'little' car, you know what to look for. The only (and main)nproblem with fitting electronic ignition to the 500/126 engines is HEAT. The "cooloing" air from the engine blows over the distributor, and electronic ignitions of ANY make or model do not like heat--they tend to wilt when subjected to a continuous blast of 100C heat. If you still have 'points' ignition, I would suggest that you retain it, and fit a "Swiftune Competition Condenser". These condensers are made for competition cars (even the GT40) where the rules stipulate that the original ignition system must be retained. The beauty of these condensers is that they have both a long 'earth' lead and a long 'power' lead, so they can be mounted up by the coil, and away from the engine-cooling heat.
The fuel tank IS vented, through the filler cap. If you have a strong smell of petrol, I would suggest that you look for a leak.The main supply pipe from tank to cafb goes through the central 'tunnel', and modern fuel is a bugger on classic-car fuel systems. If you do have a Weber 28IMB carb, they had a fuel-return system when fitted to the 126--check that you have no leaks around the back of the carb. There is a simple way to do 'return' for the carb---if you want to fit one, contact me direct ( [email protected] ) and I will describe how to fit a simple 'return'

 

[dangfiat]

Thanks for the replies. I've a new issue:

Car ran well for a 2-3mile run to the grocery store. Ran really well on the way back.

Just before getting home, it wouldn't rev past first gear. I'd get up to ~10mph and it would cut out. Limped the thing home.

I mean it was sudden. Tooling along, pulled up to a stop sign..... drove off, got ready to shift to 2nd and boom! NO POWER!!!

What would do that? I'm thinking the ignition system got too hot maybe? I don't have the heat shield on it - need to fit that. Doesn't seem to be low on oil (no oil light).

No idea to tell if it overheated - there's no temp gauge.

Any advice for this "hot cut's power at high revs in first" problem would be most appreciated. Never saw that on the Riley

 

[Bounding Bambino]

First off, congrats on the new car. Yeah they can get a bit cranky, but they are definitely an absolute blast to enjoy, and an experience that very few cars can bring.

So, to repeat what Tom mentioned above. Intermittent ignition can and more likely caused by heat cycling and failure of ignition components.

First is to determine what the car has right now. Does it have factory points, or has it been upgraded with a electronic ignition circuit. If you cant tell, just take a few photos of the ignition setup and we can help guide you down a helpful path. If you pop the distributor cover off, it can be seen inside the housing what type you have. If its points then a new set of points/clean and a reputible brand condensor, set the gaps and you should be good to go.

As with many classic cars, they sometimes don't get driven much, and sitting/age can deteriorate the ignition system, especially with how its designed on the 500 and location of components after the head cooling air stream.

I found the original listing of your car on BAT, and looks like you have a gen 1 500F. Same as mine. Where the ignition coil is located on left hand side of the car near the generator. Gen 2 67.5+ had the coil on the right side, near the hot air stream. its less common to see a coil failure, but it still can. Points are usually the first point of failure. With it having a 126 upgrade, anything goes, but it seems like the ignition cable routing is the same as the gen 1 style.

Also wouldn't hurt to throw a set a plugs in there, before troubleshooting

 

[dangfiat]

Thanks for the reply Bambino, much appreciated

I'll grab some pictures in the morning when it's light. But I can tell you it's a coil on the drivers side firewall and there's a condenser which leads me to believe it's a points ignition.

And dangit, I forgot to get points in my order from Ricambio. Does anyone know of a US supplier? These shipping fees are killing me!

I did forget to mention that before it warmed up, it had very little power (I had the choke on as well). Could barely get up to 80kph. After I got to the store, it fired right up (no choke) and ran like a champ on the way home (until sudden death )

Again, thanks all. I'm sure I'll get this little go mobile going! Though I may have plenty of questions along the way. Happy to pay it forward when I get the knowledge

Cheers
Daniel

 

[Bounding Bambino]

Let me see if i can find a cross reference to some rockauto Bosch components. I believe i had found a swap in coil and condenser. Dont remember if i had found a set of points yet

Ill update this list as i go:

Points: ACDELCO E103A

Condenser: bosch 1237330821

Plugs: NGK BPR7HS, BPR6HS, BP7HS, BP6HS

 

[Bounding Bambino]

"in a pinch condenser alternatives"
ACDELCO D204
ACDELCO D203
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS DU116
From rock auto..

But iirc. Amazon.com should have the bosch condenser

 

[dangfiat]

Thanks for the list, I'll do some searching for replacement parts as well.

The BAT pics made the car look better than it is. I'm more than likely going to have to paint it again eventually (I painted my Riley in the garage so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Will see, gotta get it running well first. Course then I'll probably get the itch to make it go faster!

Cheers and talk to you soon

 

[dangfiat]

I will put a plug in for Ricambio though! Ordered last night and it's already shipped and scheduled for delivery (in California) by Tuesday!

Side question: does anyone have a cheap used 126p (94bcd) steelie rim? My spare is a standard wheel and I have the 129 hubs installed