Technical 75 Cam To Fit

[davethetrike]

I'm about (tomorrow maybe) to fit a 1.6 75 cam -punto- to my 1.2 8v engine.

Now -hotter- cams usually extend the opening time (motorcycles usually) go for more lift or a bit of both. This cam is very ummm 'pointy' indicating lift. This concerns me slightly Because, and although, I have heard that a 1.6 75 cam will make a 1.2 8v a bit livelier I have never - with hindsight - actually heard of or, spoken to, someone who has done it. Given valves that run close to pistons -are there any known problems? Has anyone actually done this?:worship:

I'd hate to total the engine to find out

 

[custard]

you mean a 1.2 75 cam?
plenty cento drivers fitted them to there cars

 

[davethetrike]

you mean a 1.2 75 cam?
plenty cento drivers fitted them to there cars

I mean a 1.6 75 cam because the 1.2 75 is a twin cam and I can't get them both in the same slot (very big hammer).

But, yeah the 75 cam in the 1.2 - thanks now all I gotta do is fit it

If anyone has actually done this could they tell me if its worthwhile..and 'owt else about it.

 

[Oldschool]

The 75 is a SOHC and is like all other SOHC a 8v FIRE engine. There is no FIRE 1.6 engine.

I am supplyint the 75 (886) in re-profiled state and there were so far no problems.

The 75 cam requires on the exhaust less clearance than the other 8v engines and the spring tension is different.

 

[beau]

I mean a 1.6 75 cam because the 1.2 75 is a twin cam and I can't get them both in the same slot (very big hammer).

But, yeah the 75 cam in the 1.2 - thanks now all I gotta do is fit it

If anyone has actually done this could they tell me if its worthwhile..and 'owt else about it.

the 1.2 75 isnt a twin cam?

there is no 1.6 75

the cam from the 1.2 mpi (75) fits the 1.2 spi but 1.6? no.

 

[davethetrike]

The 75 is a SOHC and is like all other SOHC a 8v FIRE engine. There is no FIRE 1.6 engine.

I am supplyint the 75 (886) in re-profiled state and there were so far no problems.

The 75 cam requires on the exhaust less clearance than the other 8v engines and the spring tension is different.

Chapter 2 part B
Quote
DOHC (16 VALVE ENGINE) PETROL
UnquoteThe Fiat Punto

Engine code176.b9.000

Capacity 1242

Quote
The engine covered in this part chapter2 is a water cooled double overhead camshaft in line four cylinder engine
Unquote

Haynes manual 2b.2

And

01/06/1997
Revisions: 60 S/SX replace previous 55 S/SX; Sporting, ELX and Cabrio now have 16v 1.2 engine. All models have improved suspension and steering, Cabrio has electric rear windows; Sporting has GT-style alloy wheels and side skirts.

The 1.2 sporting of 97 replaced the 1.6 sporting which was a SOHC unit.

Now you Know why I check my facts....... If I'm about to fi the 1.6 sporting cam to a 1.2 I wanna know its ok. Then I'm told that its the cam outta a 1.2 dohc (that doesn't exist 'cos all fire engines are SOHC UNITS WHAT THE F

 

[davethetrike]

I ask again, pretty please, has anyone fitted the 1.6 75 punto SOHC cam to a 1.2 SOHC engine and was it OK and worthwhile?

Or have I got this totally wrong and the 75 cam is scourced elsewhere?

 

[col7104]

1.1 8v spi 55
1.2 8v spi 60
1.2 8v mpi 75
1.2 16v mpi 85
1.6 8v mpi 90

The cam from the 1.2 8v mpi 75 can be fitted to the 1.2 8v spi 60.

 

[dave]

the 75 is a sohc 8v fire engine, the 85 is a twincam 1.2 16v super fire.
the 1.6 is a 8v sohc non fire, its a dog of an engine.

you cant put a cam from a 16v into a 8v engine

 

[dave]

I ask again, pretty please, has anyone fitted the 1.6 75 punto SOHC cam to a 1.2 SOHC engine and was it OK and worthwhile?

Or have I got this totally wrong and the 75 cam is scourced elsewhere?

there is no such thing as a 1.6 75 :bang:

 

[beau]

there is no such thing as a 1.6 75 :bang:

dave, let me try again

THERE IS NO 1.6 75!!!!!!

 

[col7104]

It's an easy mistake to make for someone not totally clued up like yourself Beau. Maybe we're being a bit rude, just a bit?

 

[dave]

It's an easy mistake to make for someone not totally clued up like yourself Beau. Maybe we're being a bit rude, just a bit?

not realy there is a search button, the 75 cam question comes up at least once a week, should be very easy to find the right info on the forum before you go a buy the wrong part.

 

[Chas Uno]

Col, the 1.6 ohc Sporting engine is a totally different engine to the FIRE Sporting engines as others have mentioned. The camshaft will NOT interchange.

The 1.6 engine has its roots in the 128, X1/9, Mirafiori and Strada (amongst others) of the 1970's. The FIRE series of engines were much newer, coming out in 1985. The first car to be fitted with the FIRE 999cc was the Lancia Y10, closely followed by the Uno 45 and classic Panda in about 1986.

The Punto 60 uses a sohc 1242cc FIRE engine producing 60bhp. The Punto 75 also uses a sohc 1242cc FIRE engine, but because of its camshaft, mpi and slightly different head it produces 75bhp. I have an '86 Uno fitted with a 999cc FIRE and also a '96 Punto 75 1242xx which I can confirm that the engines look almost identical.

Some ELX Puntos and all 1.2 Sportings used the dohc super FIRE engine, and this produced 85bhp.

From memory the 1.6 produced 90bhp, but it isn't as efficient as the newer FIRE engines.

The 1.2 Punto 75 camshaft is sought after because it does have a different timing/ lift compared to the 60 camshaft. That's why a lot of Cento owners fit it when the do a 1242 Punto 60 engine upgrade as it helps the engine to produce more power.

However, the camshaft alone will not take a Punto 60 to 75bhp. The 75 engine has multipoint fuel injection whereas the 60 only has single point. The 75 head is also different, as it has bigger valves and also bigger ports. For maximum advantage you need the whole 75 head, but that then means you have to change the inlet manifold as the 60 manifold won't fit the 75 head.

But the 75 camshaft swap alone will raise the power by approx. 10 bhp. Check out the Cento section as they are the ones who have carried out this conversion the most. Also bear in mind that Oldschool works with and tunes these engines for a living, as does Dave to some extent, so they can give you very valuable advice.

Good luck with the swap!

 

[beau]

It's an easy mistake to make for someone not totally clued up like yourself Beau. Maybe we're being a bit rude, just a bit?

but i said-

there is no 1.6 75

then he goes and says-

I ask again, pretty please, has anyone fitted the 1.6 75 punto SOHC cam to a 1.2 SOHC engine and was it OK and worthwhile?

Or have I got this totally wrong and the 75 cam is scourced elsewhere?

 

[col7104]

I know whats a fire and what's not lol, I was listing the range that they put into Mk1 Puntos lol, except for the GT engine 'cos I couldn't remember the full stats of it The horsepower numbers are also just the bagde names, if you really want to be anal I believe the 90 is actually an 89. Not quite the same ring to it though!

edit: the 90 is a 90 (just checked with Parkers), 60 is 58.

 

[davethetrike]

Thank you mr uno 45s that is exactly what I needed

The confusion comes because I assumed 'wrongly' that the 16 valve was the sporting model 75 and because the Haynes Manual has a section on the 16 valve but fails to dicriminate this from the 8 valve mpi. Leading me to the incorrect judgement that the 16 valve was the the 75....Interesting. This of course means that the cams are interchangable. Great, the car with 75 on the side that was 8 valve didn't give up its cam for nothing.

Coupla comments, my apologise for my error (strange that you have to say sorry for learning).

If someone is in a muddle as I was shouting doesn't help.
The use of insults is also unhelpful.
Not everyone uses the forum for reference work I use workshop manuals and general reference literature. And, occasionally faulty logic.

I will retire with thanks to Dave and Col and MR45S for helping me out, and retire mildly embarrassed and amazed that people are always willing to help.

Thanks hey 10bhp for £15 that's all the cam cost me
That also explains why the 75 had the smaller discs.
Hey it also explains why every scrapper I found with the bigger discs had its top missing Odd thing the Van has the bigger discs...

 

[dave]

you should realy fit the 75 valve springs at the same time.

 

[Oldschool]

It's an easy mistake to make for someone not totally clued up like yourself Beau. Maybe we're being a bit rude, just a bit?

I have 3 769cc FIRE engines, 6 999cc FIRE engines, 5 1108 SPI FIRE engies, 1 1108 MPI FIRE, 3 1242 SPI FIRE engines, 3 176 1242 MPI FIRE engine (75), 1 188 MPI FIRE engine, 2 1242 16v FIRE engines and 1 1368 16v FIRE engine hanging around in my place. I am working for a long time with FIRE engines. And I have built race FIRE engines. Also I hold more data about the FIRE engines than any other company/private individual bar Fiat itself. And if there were a 1.6 FIRE engine I would know about it.

And finally there is no way to build a 1.6 FIRE engine.

The engine you are referring to is the early Sporting engine, which is a SOHC engine, which isn't a cross flow engine. I think me and all the others have their facts right. It might be that you two guys need to get them right.

 

[col7104]

Meh? I wasn't contesting whats a FIRE and what's not Pete, the post you've quoted was me telling Beau that telling davethetrike he was wrong in such an OTT manner was a bit rude. Granted he had been told theres no such thing as a 1.6 75, but I thought Beau was being a bit harsh, that's all.

To clear any confusion:

davethetrike asks about a 1.6 75
People tell him theres no such thing
davethetrike asks again (ok, maybe he missed it somehow)
Dave tells him there is no such thing
Beau posts saying the same as Dave, but in an offensive tone
I step in and say maybe we're being a bit rude to him


The list of engines I gave was NOT a list of FIRE engines, but a list of the engiens that go in the Mk1 Punto, minus the GT one because I forgot the specs of it, as mentioned above.