Technical 6F ECU wiring loom help

[Dragon Man]

hello people of the Cento section.

this one is currently seeking a diagram/schematic of the wiring loom of an 6F ECU cinquecento for a sort of "modernising" project. if anyone has one, can they please post it up... or PM it me... thanks

Or.

if someone knows,
if you were to remove the 6F ECU and wiring loom from the engine you have 2 connectors that go to the car's wiring loom

one is a single wire connector, next to the passenger head light (quite a thick cable so i assume it is a live power input for the ECU and loom)

and the other is a 3 pin connector next to the battery tray going into/behind the dash. (i assume that one wire is an ignition live, one wire i assume is connected to the "injector / ecu" light, but the 3rd wire i have no idea what it goes to )

can anyone tell me what cable goes where, preferably by cable colour?

for those who do not know, i am converting @420's aka my brother's Seat Marbella to SPI. it uses the same(ish) engine as the cinquecento only its the older 903cc.

it is some crazy hybrid ECU controlled carburetor system that was designed to stop a carburetor being so wasteful to pass new emissions laws (yes, it has a carb.. with a catalytic converter.. choke and everything!). however.. it has broken and will eventually wreck the cat converter

See this post here for more details

Thanks guys!

 

[fingers99]

A big job!

The early Sei used the same ECU, so there will be useful diagrams in the Seicento Technical Manual. (In the "Downloads Library".

Note that the labelling for the wire colours is in Italian. If you get that far, PM moi and I'll send you the "key".

Just a thought -- the early (as in "very") 899s have no imobiliser, so that'd be what to get if you can.

 

[Dragon Man]

that is the ECU i have. no annoying CODE system.

thankfully i have most of the sensors already on the car all but the MAP and Lambda.. well i have a lambda but it is not the right one.
the ECU in the car at the moment is an even earlier version of the cinq's 6F ECU that does not support injection, it merely only controls the spark and a shut off valve in the carburetor.

in all fairness, the job seems pretty easy. the hardest bit is sorting out where all the fuel lines go.

for comparison, here is a picture of the two ECUs

The early Cinquecento ECU:


The Marbella ECU:

 

[Dragon Man]

sorry i got it wrong.. theres 3 plugs 2x single wire plugs and 1x two wire plug

these are the plugs i need to track down what they connect to:

 

[ycming]

One of them to the in car loom, 2 of them i am sure connects to the Positive loom to the battery in the cento

Only from memory.

 

[Dragon Man]

thanks, i guessed as much. the 2 single pin connectors look to be quite meaty. so i assumed they would be a main power input.
as for the double wire connector it is a guess that one is the ECU/Injector light, and one is a "probe" to tell the ECU to power up and prime the fuel pump when you turn the key (aka an ignition live)

its just finding out what colours do what.

i am not sure if the haynes manual covers the early CODEless ECU system if it does it should be as easy as following the wires.. i just need the haynes manual.. i left mine in my cinqucento when i sold it :/

 

[Dragon Man]

just out of interest, do the 899 cinq's have just one fuel pump or do they have 2?

my guess is one in the tank, and the one that is mounted to the front next to the radiator.
am i close?

 

[cc1]

Tank only.

 

[Dragon Man]

so what is the thing on the front of the car that sounds like a fuel pump

 

[cc1]

If you have a carb setup it will probably be a diaphragm pump which you do not need.
Or a power steering pump?

 

[fingers99]

so what is the thing on the front of the car that sounds like a fuel pump

Whereabouts?

Likely candidates are the water pump (which is external on an 899, driven by the alternator pulley) or the charcoal canister (which should be silent unless it's venting).

 

[cc1]

It's a 903cc carb engine, so component layout is unknown without more info.
More Uno territory.

Edit:
Looks like the fuel pump run of the CAM.
If you want to go EFI, then it will be a lot of work as you need an electric pump for fuel pressure with all the control wiring etc.
I'm not shure of the differences between the Panda and Marbella with regard to the car wiring loom.

Can you not repair the existing setup with parts from an Uno?

 

[fingers99]

But I think he talketh of the 899 Cinq here:

j

ust out of interest, do the 899 cinq's have just one fuel pump or do they have 2?

my guess is one in the tank, and the one that is mounted to the front next to the radiator.
am i close?

 

[cc1]

"for those who do not know, i am converting @420's aka my brother's Seat Marbella to SPI. it uses the same(ish) engine as the cinquecento only its the older 903cc."

Sounded like he is keeping this engine? Might need to read up on the thread.

 

[Dragon Man]

heh yes because the "903" IS the "899" engine (just with a different cylinder head) i think it would be a easy job

right, my idea concerning fuel pumps is this:

The 903 has a old engine driven fuel pump which sucks fuel from the tank. my idea was this.
use that pump to pump fuel to the big canister fuel filter (the one that is mounted next to the radiator on a cinquecento) and then use this big filter as a sort of "mini tank" that i could use to draw fuel from for the "injector pump" (given that this was the pump that is mounted to the big black filter thing in question next to the radiator on a cinq)

i love this forum.. we start off on wiring and move on to fuel lines >_<
i did kinda make it go OT, but would still like to know if there is only one pump on an 899 cinq or two.....

for wiring purposes of course

 

[fingers99]

No, it's a crazy idea. First, I think even the early 899 ECU expects the canister to be there. Second, it over complicates everything.

The sane way to do it is to use the TB off an 899 and either an in tank pump (as in the Cinq) or an in line pump. You need a return to the tank, too: (The pressure regulator is in the TB).

There's only one pump, in the tank. Maybe you could fit the Cinq tank?

 

[Dragon Man]

:/ so what is the pump like thing that sounds like it primes when you turn the key under the bonnet?

i did have a cinq and i do remember it well. when i "played" with the code system it was that thing that would not work along with the spark.

i'll take a picture of it tomorrow.

also the TB has 4 fuel lines 2 that come from the tank (at the back of the TB, and 2 that go to this canister filter pump thing (at the front).

i'll figure it all out at some point i guess.
i am going to the scrap yard tomorrow to pick up the throttle cable, throttle body, air box, filter thing and to have a look at what the loom "plugs" into.

my theory is that if i take everything from off an 899 engine fuel and electronics wise and swap it over to the 903, i should have no problems

thanks for the help so far guys!

 

[fingers99]

also the TB has 4 fuel lines 2 that come from the tank (at the back of the TB, and 2 that go to this canister filter pump thing (at the front).

Forget the idea that it's a pump. The canister just "gobbles up" fuel vapour and releases it -- simply a passive emissions device.

The lines to the canister can be bocked off, most of the cannister binned, but you need to retain the solenoid (lets say the electric bit) or the ECU will complain.

 

[Dragon Man]

ahh that is no issue then i'll just leave the solenoid in a loop connected to the 2 front outlets.

the marbella has one of those carbon filters, but it filters gasses from the fuel tank only.

off to the scrap yard now to get moarrrr parts

 

[cc1]

I would look at getting parts like a fuel system from a Panda.