Tuning 650cc Panda 30 Head Fitting (Help)

[FDNY21]

Hi everyone, I've got a 650cc Fiat 126 engine and a Panda 30 head and I'd certainly like to mate the two however stuck re tinwork ideas!

The way I see it I have 3 options (please do correct me if I'm wrong):
1) Find Bambino tinwork
2) Modify the original tinwork to fit
3) Modify the Panda head to fit original tinwork

I tried option 1 and missed out on the couple I've found so far, I wanted to ask what other people have done and what people suggest? If it's easy to modify original tinwork I don't mind giving that a go... thanks in advance all!

 

[the hobbler]

Hi everyone, I've got a 650cc Fiat 126 engine and a Panda 30 head and I'd certainly like to mate the two however stuck re tinwork ideas!

The way I see it I have 3 options (please do correct me if I'm wrong):
1) Find Bambino tinwork
2) Modify the original tinwork to fit
3) Modify the Panda head to fit original tinwork

I tried option 1 and missed out on the couple I've found so far, I wanted to ask what other people have done and what people suggest? If it's easy to modify original tinwork I don't mind giving that a go... thanks in advance all!

Funny you should ask that question----I am building up a "695SS" engine, using a Panda30 head. I looked at all the options, and came to the conclusion that a combination of choices 2 + 3 were the answer, but what a PAIN! You have to do a LOT of fettling and general buggering about, and either be a good welder (with TIG) OR have a VERY patient welder mate! This is because you have to do one bit and make sure that it fits, and then do another bit to match the first bit etc, etc. I have ended up with a 6-piece collection of parts---2 x fan-shroud main pieces, 1 x fan-shroud top, 2 x small pieces that cover the ends of the head and mate to the main parts and finally, the thermostat housing (the Bambino's 'small-square' housing). Does this answer your question?

 

[FDNY21]

Funny you should ask that question----I am building up a "695SS" engine, using a Panda30 head. I looked at all the options, and came to the conclusion that a combination of choices 2 + 3 were the answer, but what a PAIN! You have to do a LOT of fettling and general buggering about, and either be a good welder (with TIG) OR have a VERY patient welder mate! This is because you have to do one bit and make sure that it fits, and then do another bit to match the first bit etc, etc. I have ended up with a 6-piece collection of parts---2 x fan-shroud main pieces, 1 x fan-shroud top, 2 x small pieces that cover the ends of the head and mate to the main parts and finally, the thermostat housing (the Bambino's 'small-square' housing). Does this answer your question?

Sounds like an exciting build! Mine is a tad simpler - it started as a 650cc upgrade and then upon rebuild I ended up buying a Swiatek cam, flying to Italy and coming back with an Alfasud and Panda 30 head, finding a Weber carb, Panda 30 intake manifold and Michael Speeder exhaust back here and thinking somehow I should try and throw it all together to make some kind of Panda 30 650 with a little extra poke!

It certainly does answer the question, thank you, although still leaves me half tempted to try modifying myself or half tempted to go an ‘easier’ route by somehow foregoing the Panda 30 head and playing with a standard one… it would be nice to somehow make the Panda 30 head work though!

I don’t suppose it would be easy to ‘copy’ any of the tinwork you’ve made/had made either by chance? I’ve also looked at Panda 30 engines themselves and of course they run the wrong way but if a whole engine was obtained, would the tinwork for that be a feasible option and still fit? I’ve tried researching that possibility and seen one video of a guy that seems to have a Panda 30 engine and shrouding in their 500 but a few said it can’t have been easy so I’m unsure! Thanks for your help!

 

[the hobbler]

Sounds like an exciting build! Mine is a tad simpler - it started as a 650cc upgrade and then upon rebuild I ended up buying a Swiatek cam, flying to Italy and coming back with an Alfasud and Panda 30 head, finding a Weber carb, Panda 30 intake manifold and Michael Speeder exhaust back here and thinking somehow I should try and throw it all together to make some kind of Panda 30 650 with a little extra poke!

It certainly does answer the question, thank you, although still leaves me half tempted to try modifying myself or half tempted to go an ‘easier’ route by somehow foregoing the Panda 30 head and playing with a standard one… it would be nice to somehow make the Panda 30 head work though!

I don’t suppose it would be easy to ‘copy’ any of the tinwork you’ve made/had made either by chance? I’ve also looked at Panda 30 engines themselves and of course they run the wrong way but if a whole engine was obtained, would the tinwork for that be a feasible option and still fit? I’ve tried researching that possibility and seen one video of a guy that seems to have a Panda 30 engine and shrouding in their 500 but a few said it can’t have been easy so I’m unsure! Thanks for your help!

It is a pity that you live so far away, because i would be very happy for you to come to my house (I live just outside Chester) and take as many pictures as you like and have a good look at what I have done. The engine is on a 'test-rig', so easy to view (my plan is to run the engine prior to fitment in the car--hence the 'test-rig').
As to whether the Panda30 head will gain you much power is open todebate---technically, the inlet ports are too close together, but like you, Ihad one,so decided to use it. I have had bigger inlet valves fitted, ported the head, had the head skimmed and "kidney-bowled" the combustion chambers. If you WOULD like to view my efforts, feel freeto contact me direct---- [email protected]

 

[FDNY21]

It is a pity that you live so far away, because i would be very happy for you to come to my house (I live just outside Chester) and take as many pictures as you like and have a good look at what I have done. The engine is on a 'test-rig', so easy to view (my plan is to run the engine prior to fitment in the car--hence the 'test-rig').
As to whether the Panda30 head will gain you much power is open todebate---technically, the inlet ports are too close together, but like you, Ihad one,so decided to use it. I have had bigger inlet valves fitted, ported the head, had the head skimmed and "kidney-bowled" the combustion chambers. If you WOULD like to view my efforts, feel freeto contact me direct---- [email protected]

Yes we are South Wales so it's a good few hours! I don't think I'm that way for a while either unfortunately as it would be awesome to see, do you have any photos/videos of your build by chance? It may be worth me looking at getting the bigger inlet/porting/skimming etc done as well I suppose otherwise I may be going for more effort than needed do you think? I'm still on the fence really, I'd love to use it because I have it, but... yeah, tinwork!

I saw this image of someone with a Panda 30 engine in a classic 500 so supposedly it could work...

BUT the Panda 30 engine turns the other way so I'm told so I wonder if they just used the Panda 30 tinwork/head on a 126 engine? In which case, on my next trip to Italy I wonder if it's worth me finding a Panda 30 tinwork set/engine (they are around out there, not as rare as the Bambino tinwork seems to be).

As pictured below the engine of course has the thermostat tinwork incorporating the exhaust etc so some modification will be required there but it may well be an easier modification than 126 tinwork conversion. Maybe? Maybe. Considerations! Any thoughts re this kind of tinwork anyone, anybody else tried it?

 

[FDNY21]

I suppose the addition to the above is that the alternator is under the fan section on the Panda 30 engine so it depends if the 126 crankcase can take the Panda 30 tinwork and alternator without major modification?

 

[the hobbler]

Yes we are South Wales so it's a good few hours! I don't think I'm that way for a while either unfortunately as it would be awesome to see, do you have any photos/videos of your build by chance? It may be worth me looking at getting the bigger inlet/porting/skimming etc done as well I suppose otherwise I may be going for more effort than needed do you think? I'm still on the fence really, I'd love to use it because I have it, but... yeah, tinwork!

I saw this image of someone with a Panda 30 engine in a classic 500 so supposedly it could work...
View attachment 426336
BUT the Panda 30 engine turns the other way so I'm told so I wonder if they just used the Panda 30 tinwork/head on a 126 engine? In which case, on my next trip to Italy I wonder if it's worth me finding a Panda 30 tinwork set/engine (they are around out there, not as rare as the Bambino tinwork seems to be).

As pictured below the engine of course has the thermostat tinwork incorporating the exhaust etc so some modification will be required there but it may well be an easier modification than 126 tinwork conversion. Maybe? Maybe. Considerations! Any thoughts re this kind of tinwork anyone, anybody else tried it?
View attachment 426337

The main problem with fitting the Panda30 engine complete, is the supply of spares---virtually impossible in the UK.However,beingthat it wouldseem that you visit Italy on a regular basis, this MAY not be a problem. It would be interesting to know how the Pands30 engine is made to run backwards (yes, they DO run in opposite directions). Fitting the Panda30 engine (complete) may not be as easy a job as it initially sounds.
My wife is away at the moment (she has the phone that takes pictures), but if you would like to contact me direct, when she gets bacl (next week) I will gently purloin her phone and take some pictures for you----it would be much easier if you lived a mite closer!

 

[FDNY21]

The main problem with fitting the Panda30 engine complete, is the supply of spares---virtually impossible in the UK.However,beingthat it wouldseem that you visit Italy on a regular basis, this MAY not be a problem. It would be interesting to know how the Pands30 engine is made to run backwards (yes, they DO run in opposite directions). Fitting the Panda30 engine (complete) may not be as easy a job as it initially sounds.
My wife is away at the moment (she has the phone that takes pictures), but if you would like to contact me direct, when she gets bacl (next week) I will gently purloin her phone and take some pictures for you----it would be much easier if you lived a mite closer!

Yeah it seems there's a fair few differences, the backwards running being the main stipulation re straight swaps! Re swapping as many bits as possible I wondered if the tinwork would fit with a 126 crankcase and then fitting the Panda 30 head and tinwork should be okay but the Panda 30 engine has the fuel pump on the distributor side (not sure if that means the tinwork would interfere with original 126 fuel pump position or not) and the alternator originally looks like it's behind the fan and possibly only removable from the back so engine out to get to that - although not the worst car for that job of course! And still the unknown of would it all fit together and work properly... not sure!

The curiosity in me has already priced up going out and getting an engine back and it's really not bad considering I'd end up with another Panda 30 head I could recoup money on too but part of me still thinks it would probably be easier to just modify the tinwork... maybe! I'm terrible at decisions hence all this looking, it would definitely be good to see what you've done with yours, I'll send you an email so if you can get any pics that would be great, cheers for your help!

 

[Toshi 975]

Good point about the two shorter studs that emerge inside the Panda 30 inlet ports. I dug out the pair I have and they measure 178mm in length with 18mm of thread on the top end. Thread size is M10 fine or M10 x 1.25 and if you are cutting down existing studs I would suggest extending the thread at the top before you cut it to length. In this way you can use the existing thread as a guide to ensure the die runs straight.

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Hi FDNY,
I have done 1,2,and 3 !!!!! If you look at my post “Mods and Rockers” you will find a picture of my two engines. I have recorded the trial and error of the fitting of the Fan Housing to the engine elsewhere, but suffice to say as Tom says it’s a faff!!! If you need any more pics or info on the task please ask.
Ian.

 

[the hobbler]

Hi FDNY,
I have done 1,2,and 3 !!!!! If you look at my post “Mods and Rockers” you will find a picture of my two engines. I have recorded the trial and error of the fitting of the Fan Housing to the engine elsewhere, but suffice to say as Tom says it’s a faff!!! If you need any more pics or info on the task please ask.
Ian.

The shorter Panda30 head bolts are available over the counter, but at the moment I can't remember who I bought them from---I will have a trawl through my invoices and see if I can find where they came from (and if possible, the part number).

 

[FDNY21]

Good point about the two shorter studs that emerge inside the Panda 30 inlet ports. I dug out the pair I have and they measure 178mm in length with 18mm of thread on the top end. Thread size is M10 fine or M10 x 1.25 and if you are cutting down existing studs I would suggest extending the thread at the top before you cut it to length. In this way you can use the existing thread as a guide to ensure the die runs straight.
View attachment 426373

That's very helpful, thank you! I'll measure mine and try to duplicate unless I can find some as the hobbler reckons they may be available!

The shorter Panda30 head bolts are available over the counter, but at the moment I can't remember who I bought them from---I will have a trawl through my invoices and see if I can find where they came from (and if possible, the part number).

If you do find them that would be great, thank you! Makes sense for me to get them now if I can rather than faff with cutting my current ones down!

Hi FDNY,
I have done 1,2,and 3 !!!!! If you look at my post “Mods and Rockers” you will find a picture of my two engines. I have recorded the trial and error of the fitting of the Fan Housing to the engine elsewhere, but suffice to say as Tom says it’s a faff!!! If you need any more pics or info on the task please ask.
Ian.

I'll hunt for those pics now and have a look, thank you! I've heard mixed reviews on modifying tinwork, most say a faff which does make sense although one guy on the 126 Facebook page reckoned he managed to fit original 126 tinwork to a Panda 30 head only by bending metal and not cutting anything... I assume re 1/2/3 that 1 is probably most preferable? I've had someone come forward with Bambino tinwork abroad so that may be my best option, probably a better bet than the Panda 30 tinwork as much as I'm interested how that as a project would come together!

 

[the hobbler]

The shorter Panda30 head bolts are available over the counter, but at the moment I can't remember who I bought them from---I will have a trawl through my invoices and see if I can find where they came from (and if possible, the part number).

The studs that I got are actually for the 126 BIS, but I have used them on my Panda30 head. You will probably have to use thinner washer under the nut to get all the threads in the nut used (long end goes into the crankcase). They are obtainable from:--FD Ricambi--part number:--BM1195 (the partnumber has changed since I bought them--baffled me for a bit!). They are 168mm long and cost E12.77 each

 

[FDNY21]

The studs that I got are actually for the 126 BIS, but I have used them on my Panda30 head. You will probably have to use thinner washer under the nut to get all the threads in the nut used (long end goes into the crankcase). They are obtainable from:--FD Ricambi--part number:--BM1195 (the partnumber has changed since I bought them--baffled me for a bit!). They are 168mm long and cost E12.77 each

That's great, thanks for your help!

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

If you get the chance buy both bambino and panda tinware as both are rare.
Ian

 

[FDNY21]

Big thanks to all for your help - I have been kindly offered a Bambino tinwork set off the back of my Facebook post so I'm off to Belgium in a few months to grab the next piece of the jigsaw... just need to sort my engine studs and then once I have the tinwork it can hopefully all go together!

 

[the hobbler]

If you get the chance buy both bambino and panda tinware as both are rare.
Ian

FDNY21---my wife is back, and although it has taken me a little longer than I planned to finish 'fettling' the fan shrouding on myPanda30 headed 695SS engine, I have taken a number of photos which if you contact me direct, [email protected]. I will send them through to you

 

[FDNY21]

FDNY21---my wife is back, and although it has taken me a little longer than I planned to finish 'fettling' the fan shrouding on myPanda30 headed 695SS engine, I have taken a number of photos which if you contact me direct, [email protected]. I will send them through to you

Thank you! I did send you an email prior, did you get it? Cheers! Owen

 

[the hobbler]

Thank you! I did send you an email prior, did you get it? Cheers! Owen

No, the e-mail didn't come through---try again; as soon as I get it, I will send you the pictures.

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Hi Owen, If you do need any extra pic's of fitting a Bambino specific fan housing let me know.
Ian.