Technical 2015 500 1.2 - ESC & Hill Hold warnings & no power steering

[AC43]

Was was the new battery thats been fitted?

Is it the correct type and capacity and and good brand not something like Lion?

I looked it up and Halfords batteries are made by Yuasa - decent manufacturer. Although it could still be faulty of course.

Anyway, I've contacted my local garage and will arrange to drop it off. Then I can get it properly diagnosed which is what I should have done in the first place, really.

Chances are it's one of the other minor things suggested on here - a failing earth strap or sensor. Or a duff new battery. I'll find out soon enough.

 

[AC43]

It wouldn't play first thing so I left it. Mid-morning I fired it up and it was OK. So of course, when I went back to take it to the garage at lunchtime it failed again.

However, I'd read somewhere that I could try turning the ASR off.....so I did and bingo it was working again (albeit without ASR). I took it into the local garage who cleared the fault code in the hope that that may have been the cause of the problem continuing after the battery replacement.

Fingers crossed as they then said they'd seen the ePAS systems fail on 500's and that that would involve removing the steering column and sending it off for a refurb. Gulp.

Bring back hydraulic steering I say. Oh hang on.....Fiat hydraulics.......given my recent experience with the clutch, maybe not

 

[AC43]

I went out this morning to take my daughter to the tube and it's shagged again.

If that turns out to need a steering column, I'll get it fixed, bang it out on Autotrader and get something I can rely on. Life's too short.

Meanwhile, when I have some sodding time, I'll look into earth straps and brake light switches. Probably during my hard-earned time off. Joy of joys.

 

[AC43]

I just told my wife I need to concentrate on year end and the ball's back in her court.

I have suggested she gets the AA out to get another opinion, ask about earth straps etc.

Washing my hands of it.

 

[AC43]

Happy New Year everyone and sorry for my grumpiness in December - I had too much on what with a crazy work schedule, a borked 500 and Merc that was undriveable in the snow......

Anyway, as soon as the temperatures rose the problem went away. I've since been waiting for it to fail again which it did today so I could get the AA out to have a look.

The battery was fine as was the alternator. The bloke didn't have an opinion either way on the earth strap - although I'm not sure if folks mean the earth lead on the battery or is there also one on the steering system?

Anyway, what he did see was an error code associated with the power steering ECU. Maybe the garage was right and I'll need to get it sent off and reconditioned?

Something like this I guess https://www.ecutesting.com/product-...eering-eps-electric-power-steering/hps451733/

Any thoughts?

 

[AC43]

Just to add, the error code was D702 which relates to the ePAS ECU.

Unless the problem is related to the earth, this will be a failing steering system.

If and when I can get it moving under its own steam (it wouldn't play first thing this morning), I'll take it back to garage and prepare myself for a hefty bill.

 

[AC43]

Took it round, booked it in for Monday, mentally put aside £600(!) for the repair. They don't make 'em like the used to......

Clearly, before removing the column, they'll test the earth strap. My last shred of hope.

 

[AC43]

Couldn't get it to the garage on Monday as it was too cold and so therefore tbd car wouldn't work...sigh.

It's now booked in for next Monday but I've got a meeting in toen.

We'll see....

 

[AC43]

Hopefully it'll be warm enough on Monday morning for me to get it over to the garage.

It's basically been out of action for four of the last eight weeks. What with this and the clutch hydraulic failure last it's easily thd most troublesome car I've had in 30 years.

Can't wait for the next £500 bill....

 

[AC43]

On the third attempt (spread over a 10 period due to the recent low temps) I FINALLY managed to get it over to the garage on Tuesday.

Nothing wrong with the earth. It's the column and all the steering motor gubbins. £640 + £300 labour. By the time I get it back it will have been at the garage for just under two weeks.

Still, I suppose it was stuck outside my house for two weeks in December then another two weeks in January. At least it frees up another space for the neighbours.

In the end that and the battery I replaced towards the end of last year (for no ****ing reason as it turns out) and the clutch work I had done last year will come to something approaching £1,800!!

I've run two AMG Mercs and two E500's over the last 20 years and I find that level of expenditure on a small city car utterly astonishing to put it mildly.

Sigh.

 

[AC43]

Well refurb place No 1 say they can't fix it - the firmware is wrong or something. Refurb place No 2 says they can't fix that particular part number. The garage is beginning to suspect that Fiat have locked the ECU on the later ones.

Joy of joys..

 

[AC43]

Finally, after three weeks of trying, the garage has found a place who think they can refurb that particular rack. After the cock up with the first lot, my garage has been careful to quote the actual part no for mine. This saved wasting time sending it to the second lot. The third one he tried claims to to be able to do it so the courier picked it up yesterday.

It's been quite a saga what with it being undrivable for the two cold weeks in December then the same again in January and then sitting stripped down in a garage for 22 days and counting in February.

Fingers crossed that I'm nearing then end of all this palava.

 

[AC43]

Got back from a business trip to Dublin very late last night and remembered I might have to pick the car up this morning so pinged the garage a Whatsapp.

The answer came back this morning. Refurb Place 3 say the unit on my car simply cannot be done so they're sending a "refurbed plug and play" alternative instead. Maybe next Thursday, maybe next Friday. And I've no idea of the cost.

So it looks as if the car will have been off the road for seven weeks this time on top of all the time broken down in December and again in January.

My poor Merc is looking filthy again which is really pissing me off. I ceramic waxed it lest weekend, cleaned the wheels and dressed the tyres. The 500 id the car that's supposed to be used day in day out, picking up all the kerb rash and car park dings.

What a ****ing saga.

 

[AC43]

Latest update; the unit should now be arriving next week. Provisional plan is that I'll pick it up next Thursday. We'll see.

I've also been warned that I might get the famous flashing mileage indicator on the dash because the ECU in the new steering unit won't align with those in the car.

Wow. That would have the value of the car if I ever tried to sell it. And there I was, planning my next Merc; I was considering going for a C300e hybrid and dropping down to one car. That'll screw the sums up nicely.

 

[jrkitching]

I've also been warned that I might get the famous flashing mileage indicator on the dash because the ECU in the new steering unit won't align with those in the car.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was necessary to run the proxi alignment procedure after refitting the refurbished EPS module to stop the flashing mileage.

I would be surprised if doing this didn't work.

That said, the repair isn't satisfactorily completed until no warning lights remain and the mileage has stopped flashing, and I wouldn't pay for the repair until this had been done.

If you take the car away with the mileage flashing and for some reason it can't be aligned (perhaps because of the way the unit has been repaired by a third party, or because of some other fault on the car), that is not a place I'd want to be.

I have real sympathy for you. In your position, I wouldn't be thinking kindly about Fiat. Your whole experience with this issue falls far short of what I'd expect from a car that's not much more than halfway through its life.

Sadly, I suspect you could find stories that are similar in principle (half life cars with faults that seemingly cost more than the car's worth to sort properly) on the forums of just about any modern marque.

 

[AC43]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was necessary to run the proxi alignment procedure after refitting the refurbished EPS module to stop the flashing mileage.

I would be surprised if doing this didn't work.

That said, the repair isn't satisfactorily completed until no warning lights remain and the mileage has stopped flashing, and I wouldn't pay for the repair until this had been done.

If you take the car away with the mileage flashing and for some reason it can't be aligned (perhaps because of the way the unit has been repaired by a third party, or because of some other fault on the car), that is not a place I'd want to be.

I have real sympathy for you. In your position, I wouldn't be thinking kindly about Fiat. Your whole experience with this issue falls far short of what I'd expect from a car that's not much more than halfway through its life.

Sadly, I suspect you could find stories that are similar in principle (half life cars with faults that seemingly cost more than the car's worth to sort properly) on the forums of just about any modern marque.

Thanks JRK that's good to know; I'll make sure to get them to do it.

Re the car I've just been very unlucky. There are only two known expensive failures on 500 1.2's and I've had both of them! Compounded by the odd serial number that the steering has which has stumped all the specialists.

Personally, I blame the industry's move to electronic PAS. It started with pressure from governments on fuel economy and ended up with what I think is a really stupid bit of engineering. Failure rated seem high across the industry and, being an electrical failure, it's total.

What I don't like from a Fiat/Stellentis point of view is the current terrible parts supply chain problems and what I can only describe as shameless profiteering on the prices. £3,000 for a new steering system from Fiat. Really?!? TBH that's what's irritating me, not the car itself.

Hopefully it'll be back soon and, in 6 month's time, I'll be able to teach my daughter to drive in it just like her brother has done.

As long as I get the ECU's aligned I'll be happy and will stop ranting

 

[kik]

Изгорял предпазител също може да причини периодични проблеми. Трябва да са някъде около батерията.

 

[AC43]

It's back! Seven weeks and £840 later I have a Fiat 500 again and there's no ECU misalignment - phew.

I can relax now on the Fiat front for now.

Now I need to get my Merc's subframe inspected for rust and book it in for a major service.

 

[AC43]

Two weeks in and it's great to have the car back. Firstly because we're a busy family and often need to go in two different directions at the same time, secondly because it keeps the wear and tear off my Merc and thirdly because I just like it.

It's such a fun thing to look at and to drive. It's could hardly be any more different to my car; it's half the size, half the weight and has a fraction of the power but just so good at what it does.

If it doesn't throw up any more ginormous bills I'll forgive it.

 

[george2596]

Two weeks in and it's great to have the car back. Firstly because we're a busy family and often need to go in two different directions at the same time, secondly because it keeps the wear and tear off my Merc and thirdly because I just like it.

It's such a fun thing to look at and to drive. It's could hardly be any more different to my car; it's half the size, half the weight and has a fraction of the power but just so good at what it does.

If it doesn't throw up any more ginormous bills I'll forgive it.

Hi there @AC43

I am experiencing ESC and Hill Holder issues as well at the moment and most likely will be looking at steering column replacement as whilst I still have full power steering, the car is throwing up torque sensor codes when connected to OBD scanners.

A couple of questions please if I may:

What did you pay in total for the new column and the labour?

Who did you get the new column from?

Where abouts in the UK are you?

Thanks so much,
George