Technical 2009 Fiat Ducato 2.3 130 M-Jet engine. Will the base engine fit several versions of the 2.3 van?

[joosums]

Hi all,

Having trouble sourcing an engine for the MHome. The engine code is F1AE0481N but the Fiat garage doing the install says it has to be part number 71771715/5802077929. The quotes I'm getting just quote the engine code, not part numbers.

Is this because the bare engine is compatible with several models of the 2.3 with just the bolt-ons making the difference or do I need the specific bare engine 71771715 which the engine suppliers don't provide.

If I had hair it would be gone.

If anyone has experience of these motors I'd be so grateful for any help.

 

[bugsymike]

Don't take this a gospel, but the older Sofim 2.8 SOHC engines and I suspect the later 2.3s and 3 litre DOHC versions though similar, one of the main differences I found running Iveco Dailys which are RWD is the Fiat Ducato version being FWD and so transverse mounted and at a slant/inclined compared with the Daily, it had a different lower crankshaft bearing base and sump,oil pickup etc. Though the main engine mounts were basically the same there were other subtle differences.
On the 2.8s another difference was around the waterpump and front engine mount set up.
Note. I was going to suggest that you may get around this using engines from Citroen/Peugeot FWD vans etc. However looking in a AutoData Manual suggests that your 2.3 Fiat version is not used on Peugeot/Citroen and they use their own 2.2 etc. So whilst it worked on the older 2.8 SOHC engines you are more limited on the 2.3 etc.
Not always the case but some scrapyards are quite knowledgeable and can give advise as to if it will work or not

 

[joosums]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

The motors being quoted to me are all fwd Ducatos so that shouldn't be an issue.

It's whether I just need a F1AE0481N bare engine or if I need a specific type with the parts numbers the garage specified. The scrappies are all just quoting the F1AE0481N so it seems it's compatible but my Fiat garage are saying it has to be 71771715.

I'm at a loss what to do. 2nd cam timing failure in 4000 miles. This time, the garage spent 4.5k on headwork before concluding I needed a new engine due to low comp in one chamber. Likely 10k bill.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

The motors being quoted to me are all fwd Ducatos so that shouldn't be an issue.

It's whether I just need a F1AE0481N bare engine or if I need a specific type with the parts numbers the garage specified. The scrappies are all just quoting the F1AE0481N so it seems it's compatible but my Fiat garage are saying it has to be 71771715.

I'm at a loss what to do. 2nd cam timing failure in 4000 miles. This time, the garage spent 4.5k on headwork before concluding I needed a new engine due to low comp in one chamber. Likely 10k bill.

The low compression may be due to cam timing failure valves hitting pistons and bending the conrods, it was common on the older 2.8 Sofim engines but I don't know if on these as well. With head off you would find instead of two pistons up and two down , one would be just a couple of mm further down, thats all it took !
Don't know how they can justify 4.5 k on a cylinder head repair, a few years ago I bought an Iveco Daily with that version of the 2.3 Siofim engine that had just had a brand new engine at dealers for £5k fitted with Vat!
Are they paying out for their faulty cam belt jobs? Surely if done correctly you wouldn't be in this position?

 

[joosums]

Yes, after the failure of a 4 tooth slip (like 1st time) they sent the head off to precision engineers. New rockers, one valve bent etc So when they got the head back they rebuilt it.

Once they got it running (4.5k later) they found it couldn't hold compression in one cylinder in the latter part of the down stroke so they concluded it had a crack in the block and that I needed a replacement engine.

Yes, it would've been cheaper to just get a new engine fitted. 15k on two timing belt slips in 4000 miles.

 

[bugsymike]

Yes, after the failure of a 4 tooth slip (like 1st time) they sent the head off to precision engineers. New rockers, one valve bent etc So when they got the head back they rebuilt it.

Once they got it running (4.5k later) they found it couldn't hold compression in one cylinder in the latter part of the down stroke so they concluded it had a crack in the block and that I needed a replacement engine.

Yes, it would've been cheaper to just get a new engine fitted. 15k on two timing belt slips in 4000 miles.

I may be wrong but "cracked block" sounds like BS to me!

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi,

Is this a fiat main dealer?

Are they expecting you to pay for the failure of their first repair?

Regarding engine codes / part numbers if it is a fiat dealer they will want to source the engine themselves using the fiat part number hence demanding a specific part number . I do not think the fiat part number is to be found on an engine , engine code yes, engine number yes.

Best wishes
Jack

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

I am going to stick my neck out a bit in an attempt to help you. What I say is given in good faith but the final checks are down to you.

As far as I can tell, the engine Code i.e. F1AE0481N applies to the whole engine with ancillaries. This possibly extends to the ECU map which will determine the state of tune and power output of 130 HP.

To illustrate this, if you had a F1AE0481D instead, the power would be 120 HP simply due to a different software map in the ECU. However, I would be extremely surprised if the bare engine minus ancillaries was different in any way for these two versions.

The bare engine or even the whole engine may indeed have their own Fiat part numbers, but if you are sourcing from a breaker ( rather that the Fiat full price supply chain ) they won't use this because they are selling an engine with at least some of its ancillaries, and if it is only labelled F1AE0481N then that is what they will advertise. I am pretty certain that one labelled F1AE0481N would suit your needs. I would also be very surpised if there were any detail changes in the bare engine over the years which would affect its suitability as a replacement. Clearly though, it would be better to avoid mixing blocks and heads from different engines if that can be avoided, just in case. Mixing is not a complete no-no, but it would need old and new parts to be compared carefully side by side.

I have a suspicion that your garage isn't used to sourcing outside their normal in-house supply chain, which isn't very helpful.

 

[bugsymike]

I can't help feeling if the Fiat dealership did the cam belt job in the first place it is their duty to fix the damage caused by it's failure and to say the block is cracked I found very suspicious.
Is the OP a Member of AA or RAC, maybe their legal department could take it up on his behalf.

 

[joosums]

Thanks for your replies. Very helpful.